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To buy or not to buy....?

Discussion in '308/328' started by KISSLUST, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. KISSLUST

    KISSLUST Karting

    Oct 13, 2009
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    Birmingham Alabama
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    Jason M
    Need your opinions.

    How much would a "rebuilt" title deter you from buying an otherwise low mileage documented example? The incident happened in the late 90's and the first owner took the insurance pay out. Is an 80's Ferrari old enough to where this is not such an issue?

    Just trying to see what the general consensus is on this subject.

    Regards
     
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  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Another 10 years and it won't matter a bit. But right now, -20%
     
  4. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2005
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    For me it depends on the car.

    Would a rebuilt title deter me from buying the 75 Paris show car (if it happened to be for sale with such a title)? No, not for one second.

    Would it deter me from buying a 81 GTS for which there are 17 (obviously a made up number) for sale on eBay? Yes, most definitely yes.

    Assuming the car is safe and insurable, the only downside is on resale - can be hard to sell on. And classiche is probably out of reach ;-)
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #4 Rifledriver, Dec 22, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
    In the long run it won't save you money (it could possibly cost more) so I don't see an incentive.

    It also goes against the very well accepted philosophy that the cheapest one you can buy is the best one out there.
     
  6. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Aug 28, 2005
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    It really depends on what the rebuild was - the damage that caused the write-off, the work required, and most importantly how well the rebuild work was performed.

    For example, if there was frame damage underlying body damage, then the expertise of the frame repairs will be critical, and the quality of the frame repairs will still matter 10 or 20 or 30 years later.
     
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  8. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
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    If you are purchasing the car to keep, and it was properly repaired, it really doesn't matter. If you think this will be an investment, walk away.
     
  9. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    That is probably the 'Best' answer.
     
  10. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
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    Is this the Blue 77' gtb I was looking at a year and a half ago or so? Very beautiful car, but reselling is tough on a salvage title...
     
  11. KISSLUST

    KISSLUST Karting

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    Jason M
    #9 KISSLUST, Dec 26, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
    No actually a 89 328. ��
     
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  13. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The 'Turning Point' I think will be when they stop 'Breaking' cars and start rebuilding them all.

    Eventually, they will ALL 'have stories.'

    No matter what happens to a Model T or A today for example, they are almost NEVER 'Broken' anymore.
     
  14. KISSLUST

    KISSLUST Karting

    Oct 13, 2009
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    Great responses. I just want to enjoy and when the time comes get my money back out.. ;-)
     
  15. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
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    Before you purchase a car with a salvage title, investigate the ramifications of titling the car in various states. Some states will not allow a salvage title car to go through without an extensive examination of the vehicle.

    In any case, the car will "always" be valued at the bottom of the market. So my advice is to buy accordingly.
     
  16. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2005
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    Then don't even consider savage cars. Buy the best you can find.
     
  17. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
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    I would think that it's somewhat relative meaning the value took the hit when the car became salvage. So yes, it's worth less when you want to get out of it but then you paid less to get in so it's kind of a wash if you get my meaning. Selling a car with a salvaged title might be harder to do but at the same time the lower price could open doors to a wider market of potential buyers who may not be able to afford a 308 otherwise so it's hard to say. The bottom line is that if it was repaired properly and you mostly just want to enjoy the car it could be a really good deal.
     
  18. Brian A

    Brian A Formula 3

    Dec 21, 2012
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    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    The 308, although "rare" compared to most manufacturers vehicle production numbers, is still common enough to allow sales price comparisons.

    The Hagerty Current and Historic Value charts are useful to inform the potential future value of a salvage title 308. Not knowing what year of 308 you are looking at, here is the chart for a QV: https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1983-Ferrari-308_GTS-Quattrovalvole

    Notice how the lowest grade cars ("Fair" condition) have increased from about $26k to about $36k since 2014 according to Hagerty. In comparison, the best grade car ("Concours" condition), have escalated from about $42k to $125k over the same period. A fair car has moved $10k in price while a concours car has moved $80k.

    So, the price volatility of a car not perceived by the market as the most desirable is much less that the volatility of a more desirable car. It's not going to go down much in value but is probably not going to go up much either. Financially, its a safer bet if the purchase price reflects condition.
     
  19. KISSLUST

    KISSLUST Karting

    Oct 13, 2009
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    This particular car would come with a "rebuilt" title.

    What I am reading states that the insurance makes a comparison between agreed or market value vs initial repair bill. It is an estimate for repair as there may be further hidden damage. If the initial repair is 40-60% of value then it is totaled. Once repairs are made and inspected by the state it is issued a "Rebuilt" title.

    Would that mean the repairs were good and that the "rebuilt" is better than the "salvage" titles? Just trying to take the advice being given to make an offer. So let's say I offer 55k for a low mileage, excellent service history 328 with a rebuilt title. Assuming the ppi goes well, would that be a good price ?
     
  20. Brian A

    Brian A Formula 3

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    I had never heard of a "rebuilt" title, so I did a Google search on "automobile rebuilt title". There is lots of information, and the definition is different than yours. My (new) (read-it-on-the-internet) understanding is that it means the car was declared a total write-off by the insurance company, the DMV was notified, and the car was rebuilt and reregistered.

    $55k is a pile of money. If a $55k car did not have a salvage/rebuilt title, it would take a heck of an accident (a fire?) for the car to be declared a total write-off. If you buy a 3x8 with a clean title, it is currently almost write-off proof.
     
  21. KISSLUST

    KISSLUST Karting

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    #18 KISSLUST, Dec 27, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
    It happened back in late 90's. So at the time it was valued a lot less. The repair bill that was presented was $17,678 of which $12,785 were genuine Ferrari parts. This is the definition I found. Just googled rebuilt title definition. Read about process in various places. What you stated is similar in context.

    "A good general definition for a rebuilt title (used by CarFax and others) is: A "rebuilt title" is placed upon a rebuilt or reconstructed vehicle that previously was a salvage vehicle but has now been repaired and restored to operation."


    What's a Rebuilt Title?
    If a car has had a normal life, meaning that it's never been in a serious accident, never had the odometer rolled back and was never bought back by the manufacturer because of a defect, it's said to have a clean title. That title is free of any title brands that denote special status and warn potential buyers of a possible problem or issue with the car.

    If a car has been in an accident and is declared totaled (a total loss due to accident damage) by an insurance company, it's clean title is replaced with a salvage one. The salvage title lets potential buyers know that there has been an accident and that the car may not be safe to drive.

    Once a vehicle is fixed after earning a salvage title, it's given a rebuilt title. In most cases, a rebuilt title is only provided after the car has been fixed and inspected by the state or jurisdiction that issues titles. If the repairs were satisfactory, the title is changed from "salvage" to "rebuilt" in order to reflect the repairs that were performed and note that the car is now fixed.

    Should You Avoid a Rebuilt Title Car?
    Since a car with a rebuilt title has been in an accident severe enough to earn it a salvage title, you might think you should avoid it altogether. And you may be right. After all, such damage can be destructive to a car's structural integrity, even if repairs were comprehensive enough to earn it a rebuilt title.

    But you shouldn't always avoid a car with a rebuilt title. In some cases, these cars have been professionally rebuilt to a standard almost as high as the factory's, and that means they should suffer no serious consequences compared to a car with a clean title. Resale value is affected, however: Cars with rebuilt titles sell for much less money than their clean-title counterparts, and they're often good deals if they've been rebuilt properly.


    http://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/buying-a-used-car-whats-a-rebuilt-title-236599
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    You are trying real hard to ignore good advice here. For 55 you can have a car with a rebuilt title with unknown issues related to the repair. In 10 years when you sell it will be a $65 car that did not even keep up with inflation. Or you can buy a good one with clean title for 65 or 70 and in 10 years it will be worth 125? maybe more.

    All that advice you found on line is great if you are buying a Tercel. Not so with a Ferrari.

    Also, having been in the Ferrari business for a long time I can tell you the buyers and owners of salvage/rebuilt title cars are not the types of owners you want to follow in ownership. They exercised a mindset at purchase that was exercised in every repair and expenditure on the car. If you decide to purchase I promise to exercise my option to say I told you so.
     
  23. KISSLUST

    KISSLUST Karting

    Oct 13, 2009
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    Point taken. I appreciate the advice. :)
     

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