To buy or not to buy...

Discussion in 'California/Portofino' started by Avia11, Apr 20, 2017.

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  1. Avia11

    Avia11 Karting

    Jan 21, 2017
    69
    Dallas, Texas
    Hi guys.

    I found it. A 2016 Cali T that checks most of the boxes. Solid warranty. 2000 miles. Nice color combo. Just no HS. However sports exhaust that has been opened and supposedly stiffer post-market springs.

    A couple of questions:

    1. I am seeing all of this chatter about the "Cali T replacement." Should I put this purchase on hold. I'm getting an approximately 260 MSRP car down to the 180s. If they d/c the Cali is the car price going to tank? Not that it matters that much, but at the same time this is my first Ferrari, I was deciding between the MB AMG GTC and the Cali T. If I should wait for the next car to be released, I can. Or if I should wait for a 2017 HS to drop in price I can. I just finished fellowship and I was saving this money to buy a nice GT car, I love the car and its look, but I don't want to be making a dumb financial decision that anyone can foresee.

    2. Leasing vs financing vs paying the cash. I have the cash to just pay for the car, cash thats not tied up in investments. Is there still a benefit to leasing or financing? It just sounds like I am paying more for something that I can buy outright.

    Thanks so much for everyones input. I have learned a lot from reading prior posts and from everyones responses.
     
  2. wrs

    wrs Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 11, 2015
    623
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    William
    So the car has been modded and is being sold with only 2000 miles at a 30% discount from MSRP? Is it certified and are you buying from a Ferrari dealer? With a car that new, I would rather be buying from a dealer and it be certified. That might be part of why you are getting the deal you are.

    Is there a dealer in your area? Where are you planning to get the car serviced? You might want to think about those two points because the car will need service and parts take a while to get to you from Italy. If you didn't buy from the local dealer, you might have a hard time getting prompt service from them so you should check into any alternatives.
     
  3. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    Feb 24, 2016
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    Mario
    Concerning the substitution of the Cali there aren't yet dates and information about what the car will be so don't worry about that. If you found a Cali T at a good price, a combo you like with low mileage, accident free and under factory warranty, my only advice is go for it because not much can go wrong. The Cali T is a very fast Ferrari, probably one of the most versatile ones because it's a coupé and a convertible and despite of having an engine which is non aspirated what can be an issue for the purists, I'm certain will give you many hours of drivingpleasure in great style.
     
  4. tomc

    tomc F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    10,593
    DFW, Texas
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    Tom C
    1. Drive an HS, if you have not. That will give you the best indication if it is worth the extra $ and extra time to wait. That being said "I just finished fellowship." As in university Post-graduate? That might be a better reason to wait. Get the next phase of your life settled and going strong, and by then HS will be lower in price, and you will be in a better position to enjoy your Cali more fully. Please note, this is "old guy" advice! ;)

    2. If you have the cash for buying, plus a reserve for maintenance, plus all the the other things you need to live, I am a fan of cash purchase. What % can you get on a loan? If it is very low, then perhaps, & if you have good investments to park the cash, then a loan may be the better option. For our Porsche, interest rates were in the sub 2% range, so we financed, but still paid off within a year. For our Ferrari, rates were in 5% range, so we did outright cash purchase.

    Good luck...T
     
  5. Avia11

    Avia11 Karting

    Jan 21, 2017
    69
    Dallas, Texas
    Thanks for your replies guys! Oh sorry I'm a physician 1 year out of training. I do have the resources to close the deal and have enough left over to take care of everything else. I was more concerned with the car value dropping through the floor after I purchased it. The aftermarket work on the car was done by a Ferrari dealership with a solid reputation. The warranty is still intact and the car has been pre-certified. The warranty does not expire until the end of August 2019. Is Ferrari not like BMW or Mercedes, can you not buy the car from one dealer and take it to another dealer? I don't have a Ferrari dealer in a 200 mile radius from me, but I am likely moving back to either Illinois or Texas in June of this year and there are dealers close by there. Thanks for your help!
     
  6. wrs

    wrs Formula Junior
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    Jul 11, 2015
    623
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    William
    It sounds like the original owner is taking a bath on the car which should protect you. However, if you are buying it just because of price and it doesn't have all the options you want, then you may experience buyer's remorse and that will cost you some money to take care of. You wil lose money owning an expensive car, it's an expensive proposition, usually about $30k/yr if you buy new.
     
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  8. Avia11

    Avia11 Karting

    Jan 21, 2017
    69
    Dallas, Texas
    @wrs... the car is stacked with the options that I want. Other than insurance and tires is there anything else cost wise I should be thinking off.
     
  9. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3
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    Apr 2, 2012
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    Get a proper Ferrari not a rebadged Maserati, there is some advice
     
  10. Royalpar1

    Royalpar1 Formula 3
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    Oct 18, 2013
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    HS is in my opinion not as important as Magneride. I would pass on the car if it did not have magnaride minimum or HS
     
  11. wrs

    wrs Formula Junior
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    Jul 11, 2015
    623
    Austin, Texas
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    William
    I don't know with Ferrari's but that is what the warranty is for and you have two years of that. Just make sure to put enough miles on it to flesh out all the issues. I only put 14,000 on my 991 TTS in two and a half years but I drove it several times a week. It cost me about $25,000/yr in depreciation and I got it like you as a low mileage second owner. Mine was bought in 2014 and it was a 2014 model year but a 9/13 build date. I still lost about $60,000 from what I paid to what I got in trade. Same thing with the new CTTS we bought in July 2014. We paid $142k for it with a sticker of $153k but we got $72k in trade a month ago (the car we traded for was a leftover, never titled 2016 Maseratti QP and we got it for $115k as a new car when it was MSRP $156k). That was the low end of the trade range for the CTTS but the high end was $77k so it still cost about $25,000/yr. Similar story with my M5 which was $110k new in May 2013 and it traded for $61k in Dec 2014. The biggest expense if nothing goes wrong with the car is depreciation.
     
  12. wrs

    wrs Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 11, 2015
    623
    Austin, Texas
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    William
    Return to the snob section please.

    That's what a sales guy told me when all he had was Magneride to sell. Turns out the sound on the HS is better and to me, that matters as much as Magneride so it's kind of dependent on what each person's preferences are with the HS package. The Magneride is the main feature in HS on a dollar basis but the sound can't be had otherwise and you do get the better shifting with HS and I also find that to be amazingly better.
     
  13. Avia11

    Avia11 Karting

    Jan 21, 2017
    69
    Dallas, Texas
    Thanks everyone for the feedback.

    @wrs I just sent you a PM about what you were saying about depreciation being the biggest expense.Thanks!
     
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  15. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
    Sponsor

    Aug 25, 2004
    2,971
    Dallas Texas
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    Steve F
    If you end up in Texas, know that we will be more than happy to welcome you into the Ferrari family!

    Ask yourself how long are you going to keep this car vs the drop in value.

    Then ask yourself, how much is the fun you are going to have owning and driving a Ferrari worth to you.

    Enjoy and welcome to the family, in advance!

    Steve

    Boardwalk Ferrari
    Service Director
     
  16. nextceo1

    nextceo1 Karting

    Mar 13, 2017
    57
    #14 nextceo1, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
    Lol...someone tell Scraggy that not everyone that owns a Ferrari can afford to visit the Chiropractor after every time they drive their car.
     
  17. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 17, 2003
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    What's a chronopractor??

    Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
     
  18. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3
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    That's actually very good, I just mean if you are worried about depreciation etc make a smart buy and get a Ferrari or Ferrari model line with provenance. You don't need a chiropractor in a 430 manual Spider with ceramics and you will have free motoring for life.
     
  19. tomc

    tomc F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    10,593
    DFW, Texas
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    Tom C

    If you drive it as much and the way you should, gasoline. Lots of it!

    On the waiting, I was thinking more about getting settled in other aspects of your life As a young professional before adding the care and feeding off an exotic, moving, new practice, etc. rather than financial aspects. But, like I said, that's me being an old worry wart.

    As for taking a depreciation bath, I think you can infer that prices on the Cali drop & quite rapidly in their first year, with or without a new model, especially if you, heaven forbid, drive it and rack up the miles!

    I'd be hard pressed to believe that a dealer would not take your service $$$ regardless of where you bought your F-car. I bought mine from Miller in CT, and get it serviced at Boardwalk here in Dallas.

    T
     
  20. Avia11

    Avia11 Karting

    Jan 21, 2017
    69
    Dallas, Texas
    @tomc. I think you make a really good point. Maybe I should wait to be more settled. I have a car that gets me around. I was just chomping at the bit because what I think I have in front of me are 2 really fantastic deals. I could buy the easier to manage mercedes benz amg gtc and then move to a ferrari after a few years. Its just that I was running the numbers and the depreciation on a new amg is pretty bad after its first year. I was thinking with the Ferrari I'd beat the depreciation.

    @Scraggy: How does the warranty work on a 430 manual spider since i guess the last ones made were in 2009? How reliable is that?
     
  21. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3
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    You can't buy a Ferrari with your head though you can mitigate the finances and risks, go with your heart. Don't look at a car on the drive and think your CFO bought it, should be a dream.
     
  22. Themaven

    Themaven Formula 3
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    Scraggy is right...and, have you driven a 458 Spider? Not far from your range, more modern than a 430 manual (of which I own two), very different car to Cali, though the 430 will depreciate less. Ferrari is about to extend the qualification period for its two year approved used warranty to 12 years from date of first registration, which covers all these cars.
    As a daily driver, a 430 manual lacks things like good sat nav and Apple car play etc, which would irritate me. And it's a manual.
    Have you considered a California 30? More depreciation proof than newer ones and a more characterful engine. Also warranty covered from a main dealer.
     
  23. vjd3

    vjd3 Formula 3
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    Jun 3, 2005
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    While the depreciation is certainly a part of it, it's also important to pick the car that fits your lifestyle best. My first Ferrari was a "proper" red gated F430 Berlinetta and while I loved the car, the California 30 is a better fit for me, and I drive it much more often than I did the F430. It's just easier to drive wherever I'm heading on a nice day, where the F430 was more of an event, attracted a lot more attention and I worried about parking it, wife didn't want to ride in it because it feels like a race car, etc.

    In Porsche terms it reminds me of giving up my beloved 1987 911 Turbo and its 4-speed transmission when I moved to the Boston area back in 2000, it was just not suited for commuting in that traffic as a daily driver. The later model 993 I bought did just fine.

    As far as depreciation, a car like an F430 that is closer to the bottom of its depreciation curve is attractive, plus it's less money than a near-new California T. Plenty of F1 F430s out there in the low 100 range with reasonable miles. The 6-speeds shot up, and have come down a bit, but as that is viewed as more of a "collectible" car now, you have to be concerned with mileage if you're worried about resale. That's okay for an occasional weekend driver but it you want to get out and drive the car a lot, it's something to think about. Or buy an earlier California, they have come down significantly since the T came out. Still a terrific car.

    My view is, if it's depreciating anyway, you might as well get out there and enjoy it, which is why I've put almost 10k miles on my California in less than 2 years, and that's storing it for the winter. I wrapped it in XPel, extended the original warranty and I just don't worry about it.

    That said, I'm going back the other way, possibly, I just listed my 2013 for sale and have my eye on a 458. But it's not my only car and I work from home.
     
  24. wrs

    wrs Formula Junior
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    Jul 11, 2015
    623
    Austin, Texas
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    William
    I ruled out the 458 based on friends experience with them being garage queens or strictly track cars. I can't get out of them without hitting my left knee on the dash. I am 6'3" tall these days but my legs are long. No such issue with either the 991tts or the Cali T. The Cali T is higher than the 911 and causes less problems parking. The 458 will be worse without a lifter. I am extremely pleased with what the HS does for the Cali T. boobernackle hit the nail on the head. My Porsche was blazing fast but all that horsepower was wasted in the city.

    I don't in any way think that the Cali T has no provenance nor is it a re-badged Maserati. It's a great car and probably the most practical car made by Ferrari. We have a saying here in the US, different strokes for different folks.
     
  25. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    365
    please don't follow the stereotype and be a doctor that drives a Porsche...

    go Ferrari!

    i had a 2012 cali white/cuoio loved it, then red/beige 458 spider loved it even more but my tall friends did get cramped in 458

    lost more money on the 458 than the cali because the MSRP on 458 was carbon fiber inflated but still enjoyed both so get your head right before you buy, it's a mindset not a numbers game
     
  26. Avia11

    Avia11 Karting

    Jan 21, 2017
    69
    Dallas, Texas
    haha. im 6 1 ... i don't know if that qualifies as tall. i think there is only one carbon fiber option on either of the cali's im looking at. msrp for the first high 250s the other high 240s. both being sold for 180s. i dont know what you guys think but i put maybe 2k miles on a car a year, the warranty expires late aug 2019 for both, i think i should be able to either extend the warranties or get rid of the cars for anywhere from 120-150. losing 30-35k on a car over 2-3 years is just part of driving right? im not so concerned about that as I am of overpaying for something. i did look at some 458s this morning, im not convinced its a better fit for my lifestyle. californias are beautiful cars (in my opinion) but i dont know if they are as flashy as a 458... i want a nice relatively low key fast car. i never got into the look of any of the porches except for the carerra gt and i'm not at a point in my life where i can spend 750-850K on a car...
     
  27. tomc

    tomc F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
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    Tom C


    Cali definitely gets less attention than a 458, especially if you choose a low key color. Better yet, find an example without shields.
    T
     

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