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To Major or not to Major

Discussion in '348/355' started by PBRacer, Jan 18, 2019.

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  1. PBRacer

    PBRacer Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    153
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Stan
    I am selling my 97 355 Spider. I have it at the dealer for checkout prior to listing it. The last major was 7 years ago. The car has had 400 miles put on it in those 7 years. Currently about 13K total miles.
    The cost of the major at the dealer is 12,500. That plus new tires, etc, etc is going to push me close to 16-17K.

    Since Im selling it should I go through with the major or is that just pissing money away I'm not getting back in the sale???
     
  2. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
    1,304
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    To help decide .. tell us about the rest of car .. condition of interior paint color .. clutch etc

    The reason for these questions .. depending on some answers you may get diminishing returns

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
     
  3. PBRacer

    PBRacer Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    153
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Stan

    Car has been kept indoors since 2002 when i bought it. Car is in great condition. Top works fine. Clutch works fine. There is a couple of really small paint chips that can be fixed overall the paint is good. It's red with beige interior. 6 Speed.
     
  4. 76Steel

    76Steel Formula 3

    Sep 8, 2007
    1,289
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    Mike
    In some ways, after spending 16-17K extra on your car, the question might be - would your car actually make you more than 16-17k extra after the sale? Fresh major, new tires might help you find a buyer quicker. Do keep in mind that there are guys out there looking for a car that is cheaper up front (especially one that is nice like yours) and one they can attend to when they want to spend the money on a major.

    For example, there might be a case where someone would prefer to buy your car cheaper and then take it to a good independent and get it all done for much less. Just thoughts. I wish you best of luck with the sale.
     
    TooFast355 and tres55 like this.
  5. PBRacer

    PBRacer Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    153
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Stan

    Good points. I was astonished at the cost of a major now. 7 years ago it was only 5500 from same dealer
     
  6. 76Steel

    76Steel Formula 3

    Sep 8, 2007
    1,289
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    I found it really interesting when Merlin Auto from GA offered a service deal of 50% off MSRP off a major. I wondered how they would make money. Now, I know. If a major at a dealer is 12,500 bare bones, then yep $6200 is about the real world going rate.
     
  7. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2012
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    Tinton Falls, NJ
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    Bob Ferraris
    #7 drbob101, Jan 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
    You absolutely do not have to spend that kind of money on a major. Shop around.

    That’s ridiculous.

    Give Dan at Bradan, the sponsor of this forum a call. They do a lot of majors for guys in the NYC area and I’m sure he can give you a price range for shopping purposes. He may be out of your geographical range.
     
    Chupacabra likes this.
  8. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2018
    1,688
    Central NJ
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    Eric
    Last few spiders I saw sell were in mid 60's to mid 70's. I don't think you will get that money back. Probably better off listing it for 75 as an example, waht ever number it is, and offering a 5K rebate for service in the add. Market it that way maybe. Other opinions may vary.

    Indie shops are 4K- 7K depending what you get done and what they find. Good luck!
     
  9. 76Steel

    76Steel Formula 3

    Sep 8, 2007
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    I agree. "Even" if it is $2000 in parts/fluids, where is the 10K plus in labor going? Crazy.
     
  10. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
    1,304
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    I would start at a dealer / Indy car sales to get a wholesale price .. then factor the major .. all it ten k and maybe do a few small things at that time as well .. I don't know any great place in virigina .. but am sure many on here can help

    Once you calculate that .. look at the going prices on guru etc factoring a 10 to 20 discount on cars that would be similar to yours and see if it makes sense either to sell to private person as is at 10 to 15 over the wholesale price above or make pristine and sell (net) of 10 to 15 percent less than a comparable car in guru , autotrader , old Ferrari chat ads

    The concern is not to reach the price ceiling no matter how good the car is

    That all being said .. a pristine no story car with major and no accidents, stickys etc will fetch the most critical buyers who are willing to spend a little more not to so anything but drive

    This is consistent with the housing market



    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
     
  11. PBRacer

    PBRacer Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    153
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Stan
    I get it. It wasn't what i was expecting to hear, that's for sure. I kinda like the idea of maybe offering 5K toward a major in the listing. Not exactly sure how to accomplish that or if I just end up discounting the price by 5K.
    I don't have any local shops that i know i would trust to replace the timing belt is the issue with trying to do the local thing.
     
  12. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    you discount by 5k yes... but make it clear its a rebate for service.
     
  13. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    Sep 30, 2005
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    Absolutely. That's crazy money unless you're expecting something well outside a standard major
     
  14. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2012
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    Bob Ferraris
    #14 drbob101, Jan 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
    I would be willing to give up 5k on my sales price target towards a major if it needs one.

    The idea of having a fresh major done and the car priced right has its advantages. There are first time fcar buyers out there (I was one) , and buying a car that is ready to go has its attraction to some.

    A basic major, without additional things like headers, clutches, etc. is approx 40 hours labor plus parts. Ricambi skit is about 1500 I think.

    There are plenty of indi shops you can call in your area. Don’t get soaked by the dealer for that kind of money.

    FYI. I bought your car with 18k miles and a fresh major 5 years ago.
     
  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,580
    New England/FL
    Put it on BAT with a reasonable reserve and be done with it.
     
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  16. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    11,602
    dont do it. come to the right price as is and let the new buyer do the major where they like. you will save yourself from a bunch of headaches. after a ppi and a major done by shop of new owners choice you shld never get a phone call "hey what about this..."
     
    jimmym, taz355, WATSON and 3 others like this.
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,453
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    I'll tell you where. 40 hours multiplied by $245 per hour. That is the going rate at a Ferrari dealer. While I do think $12K is high, the Ferrari parts are getting expensive as hell too.
     
  18. 76Steel

    76Steel Formula 3

    Sep 8, 2007
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    $245 per hour? I did not know this was the rate. Sounds crazy but I’ll believe it. Ricambi has the 355 service kit for $1700 and that includes Hill tensioners. How much do the same parts cost Ferrari dealer internally?
     
  19. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 9, 2010
    10,708
    WI
    #19 WATSON, Jan 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
    This a tough call. From a pure sales side, you are splitting the market.

    Getting a "major" done can cover a pretty wide gamut.
    Mine included a rebuilt power steering pump, rebuilt water pump, rebuilt hydraulic tappets, new tensioners and tensioner bearing, all new belts, new hoses, new plug wires, plugs, painted valve covers, and other stuff.

    I doubt an owner anxious to sell the car will do much past the belts and the really really obvious anomolies.

    So then what?

    One group will want the major done so they can feel good about it (whatever "it" is).
    Can you recover the price of that major in the sell price even if it is basic as basic comes?

    One group (like many here) will not want the major done.
    Instead historical records, compression tests, recalls and other history is fine.
    There will be a discounted sales price of course but then the car is sold "as-is" and you are on your way.

    Personally, unless the car is 100% pristine and you are expecting the top 2% of the market, I would list it without a major first.
    Explain the history, circumstances and the fact that it is being offered so the new owner can craft the engine out service to their standards, not yours.

    If you do list it with an engine out service I would document the hell out of it. Pictures, removed parts reserved, new part receipts, etc. Bradan becomes a VERY good option if you go that route,

    Post some pics of the car....I am curious.
     
    flash32 likes this.
  20. tres55

    tres55 Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2012
    2,076
    Canada
    You won't see even half that money back. Dump it as is.
     
    jimmym likes this.
  21. A348W

    A348W Formula Junior

    Jun 28, 2017
    994
    North Wiltshire, UK
    #21 A348W, Jan 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    At that price for a major; you should look at shopping it to the UK for its service and then ship it back!!!

    You’re cars are a bit cheaper but wow do you get ripped off big time on your services costs.

    Main dealers here will offer discounted rates for older cars. Ranges, but I know you can get between £80-£100 an hour depending on how much work and how good a customer you are.

    A reputable independent will be around £2000 for a major with belts.
     
    drbob101 likes this.
  22. PBRacer

    PBRacer Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    153
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Stan
    The car is in good shape. I don't know where it falls on the "concours to beater" list other than probably not near the bottom.

    I think this may be the best way to go:
    "Personally, unless the car is 100% pristine and you are expecting the top 2% of the market, I would list it without a major first.
    Explain the history, circumstances and the fact that it is being offered so the new owner can craft the engine out service to their standards, not yours."


    A couple of pictures:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. 76Steel

    76Steel Formula 3

    Sep 8, 2007
    1,289
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    Just judginh from these 2 pics, but your car looks great in them. Probably a really nice honest car.
     
  24. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2013
    956
    Worthington OH
    Full Name:
    Ed
    Totally agree with this / if it’s a new F buyer then then the major will begin a relationship on service for that owner and perhaps make them a better owner in the long run...I know i want to know exactly what’s going on during such a service....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. TrojanFan

    TrojanFan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 17, 2008
    3,982
    So. CA & NV
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    Peter
    What are you hoping to get for the car if you don't do any work? I suspect that you would get about 50-60% back at best on what you spend. In my opinion, list all of the cars virtues and be honest about the service and price accordingly. Looks beautiful. Same color combo as my '98 but she has 30,XXX on the clock now. Once you bring it to the shop, there are going to be add ons that you don't know about and the the service could end up at $15K+. Knock $8-$10K of a fair price for a fully serviced car of the same vintage, miles and condition (I don't think $5K off will get it done) and be done with it. There is a market out there for buyers who are not afraid to have their own service done or are willing to"Stooge" it themselves. The net end price to you is the same or better without the hassle of the service.
     
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