To tell or not to tell?

Roy,

I put a bid in on the 6.0, heck, if it went for $60-70k i'll be happy, but it got yanked?

 

This is very annoying and it seems like Roy gets thrown under the bus more than any other guy I know. Whether it be with Josh, this titanium retard, or someone else, Roy always seems to get sucker punched. I know for one that I will be a customer of his because I have seen the lengths that he goes to make sure a customer is happy. And not only that, but the guy is resilient as hell. He just keeps getting back up and fighting to make sure his reputation is flawless.

Roy, you're a role model.

 

I couldn't care less about misplaced hyperbole; having a dealer say a car is pristine and finding out on inspection that it is nowhere near pristine is no big deal- caveat emptor. However, here in Colorado, if you sell a car with a "clean" title and you KNOW that it actually had a salvage title in the past (meaning the title has been cleaned illegally), you lose your license and you can be prosecuted (I believe it is a felony). None of this other bs even matters. Writing a note on the PO is immaterial unless it is absolutely a full disclosure of the title situation. Even then you're on thin ice. I suspect that is why dealer B wholesaled the car. Are the rules of disclosure and dealer ethics rules the same for wholesale sales? If they are, dealer B should have purchased the car back immediately to avoid what is inevitable (unless CA has way more relaxed rules than we do here in CO). If I am reading this thread correctly (and perhaps some info is wrong) the dealer board will be kicking some A very soon. Having said that, I should note that I have no horse in this race and both dealers seem to have good reputations, so maybe there's some mitigating information yet to come.

 

It's a shame "big ego's" get in the way of a simple solution, usually what happens in these situations. Now this will most likely turn into a big costly mess. Lawyers are already planning a vacation im sure.

 

Sports Car Company YOU SUCK !!!!! Its very clear that car was not pristine title clear or not your definition of pristine is so far off
I would never even bother to look at your site again much less buy a car from you if the car is so pristine give Roy back his money for the car and resale it seams pretty easy sounds as though you dont want to be stuck with it again Its a very sad day for all of fchats readers to see you cant stand behind what you sale If dealers cant trust one another why should we trust the dealers once again SCC YOU SUCK

 

Hello my name is Jim Lyons and I have been president of Sports Car Company Inc. located in La Jolla, California, for the past 30 years. First, let me thank everyone for all the great feedback that I’ve received from so many of you over the years on both Ferrari Chat and eBay. With Ferrari Chat, Rob Lay has created a great Ferrari community here and I have received countless referrals as a result of your exchange of information. Many of you know I am old school and do almost everything over the phone, feel free to call me anytime and visit our site at www.SportsCarComapny.com.

This is my first time communicating to Ferrari Chat members. I’ve been getting updates from my salesman Rick (an avid Ferrari Chat member and sponsor) regarding recent misstatements made by Roy at Cats Exotics about my business and my integrity. Roy at Cats Exotics threatened to trash me on this forum and any other he could find if I did not buy this Lamborghini in question from him. Further, I received calls from several concerned people who let me and Rick know that Roy/Cats Exotics was asking people to join in his efforts to trash Sports Car Company. IT’S TIME TO SET THE STORY STRAIGHT.

Regarding the 2001 Lamborghini that Roy/Cats Exotics is pissing and moaning about, here are the facts in response to Roy’s fiction. I purchased this car through Bobileff Motorcars who brokered the deal for their customer. The previous owner had owned the car for a few years on a clean California title and was unaware of the cars lifetime history. The car had been recently serviced by the expert team at Bobileff Motors and nothing major was found during the service and visual inspection. We didn’t do a full PPI on this car as nothing in the visual inspection made us feel it was warranted. When I was negotiating the purchase of this car we ran a Car Fax and saw that the Car Fax report showed a timeline indicating a previous salvage history in 2002 and then later, a clean California Title was issued. Upon learning this, I renegotiated the price with the former owner and purchased the car.

At the time Cats Exotics was considering buying the car, Kevin called and asked Rick to walk around the car with Kevin on the phone asking for cosmetic descriptions of the car. Rick answered all of Kevin’s questions (exhaust, leather, paint, etc) and told Kevin that the wheels looked oxidized and they needed polishing.

Roy and Kevin of Cat’s Exotics followed up with calls to me and Rick about this car and we worked through the deal. I discussed openly that the vehicle had a Car Fax Title issue showing salvage and that I was not certain the history but, the title I now had in my possession was a clear California Title. I was not involved, nor do I know how the California Title came about. Rick and I provided Cats Exotics with the following: 1.) A dealer’s Wholesale Sales Order that clearly stated in bold print that the Car Fax Shows A negative but car has a clean California Title, 2.) A Copy of the Car Fax showing ALERT in bold stating Salvage New York title issued in 2002 (Car Fax was printed and date stamped 8/20/08 from when we purchased the car) and , 3.) A copy of the California title provided to us by the cars previous owner. This dealer Wholesale Sales Order was returned to us by Roy both SIGNED and STAMPED with Cats Exotics dealer’s stamp. There is NO WAY that Roy or Kevin could possibly have been unaware of the salvage title issue.

We carried on with the deal. Unfortunately Roy’s truck arrived to pick up the car while the detailer was in the process of working on the rims. I apologized for not being able to complete the rim detail. When the car arrived at it’s destination, Rick received a call from Kevin noting some of the cosmetic issues. Rick offered to take care of those minor cosmetic items at our cost

I sold the car to Cats Exotics and was told that they presented it to their buyer. I suspect that they didn’t make their customer aware of the negative information on the Car Fax prior to completing their sale. Roy had every opportunity to have the car inspected in San Diego before shipping the car across the country. It’s only after his deal fell apart that Roy wanted to unwind the deal. Roy has falsely stated on Ferrari Chat that there were changes to the Car Fax after he took possession of this car and he also alleged that the Car Fax we sent did not show the previous salvage title. That’s an outrageous lie – does Roy really think we have the ability to change Car Fax data? Hello? We are providing this forum with the exact Car Fax that was provided to Cats Exotics(date stamped 8/20/08). (By the way Cats Exotics, like anyone else, can pull their own Car Fax online). Another misstatement from Roy’s to this forum was his story that the salvage title was a result of a father/son dispute. Roy must be confusing his stories because I assure you that he never heard that from me. Perhaps that’s the story he dreamt up for his customer.

Sports Car Company Inc. has been satisfying dealers and private parties for over 30 years, becoming one of the largest Wholesale Ferrari Dealers in the USA. If we were guilty of the bad behavior that Cats Exotics alleges – we would not have the longevity or respect that we have achieved. Sports Car Company buys and sells hundreds of exotic cars annually with superior customer satisfaction evaluations year after year. I go out of my way to make customers happy and as a result I have thousands of satisfied customers. If Roy spent more time selling cars and making his customers happy instead of wasting time with this nonsense, perhaps he too would have thousands of satisfied customers.

Attached for the forums viewing, please find a copy of 1.)the dealer Wholesale Sales Order- clearly stating Car Fax Shows a Negative - SIGNED & STAMPED by Roy & Cats Exotics 2.) the Car Fax that was sent to Cats Exotics and, 3.) a copy of this Lamborghini’s California title.

This will be my one and only posting on this matter. Sports Car Company, Inc. including Jim and Rick respectfully sign off – we have Ferraris and exotic inventory to wholesale .
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Here is the title...
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Well there's the washed title. Curious why your visual inspection that didn't warrant a full PPI didn't reveal the kit car bumper and are you still claiming this car is "pristine"?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvFPl_3nhxI

 

I have exceeded my popcorn quota for the month with this thread...

Good thing it's almost February...

Mike in Kuwait

 

Stating that CarFax has a negative notation is a far from stating that the vehicle has a prior salvage title.

The copy of the title you posted is from 2007, is one year and a few months, not a few years on a "clean" California title. And oh, look at the CarFax, Arizona "clean" title issued on 3/12/07 and the "clean" California title issued on 4/5/07. Looks like someone took it to Arizona for the purpose of washing the title. Was it the same person or dealer you bought the car from?

What was the date you bought the car again? From whom did you purchase the car? Private party or dealer?

 

I find it unimaginable that any dealership would not run their own Carfax or not use other methods to come to a conclusion on any car where big $$$ is concerned. I'll say this again.

I find it unimaginable that any dealership would not run their own Carfax or not use other methods to come to a conclusion on any car where big $$$ is concerned. And again.

I find it unimaginable that any dealership would not run their own Carfax or not use other methods to come to a conclusion on any car where big $$$ is concerned. Once more.

I find it unimaginable that any dealership would not run their own Carfax or not use other methods to come to a conclusion on any car where big $$$ is concerned.

It's very very hard for me to believe that Dealer A took Dealer B's word and did not pursue due diligence on their (dealer A) own, to protect their interests. Maybe Dealer A flies fast and loose and is so savvy that they don't have to partake in the usual methods of discovery that mere mortals utilize...the question then is in two parts; why not, and if so, why?

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this not Dealer B's first big drama on Fchat? Not through their own dealings, but via Dealer A's? Does Dealer A have a lot of hits and posts regarding Dealer A's business doings and machinations?

I'm not implying Dealer A runs a bad or crooked business, not at all. Dealer A seems to want to provide the best cars for the money, and does so on a very regular basis. So why then, does Dealer A go completely grape nuts on a regular basis?

 

I'm glad Jim Lyons has come forward with a message directly from him.

I wish Jim from SCC had covered a few more topics in his post:

- why was the incorrect VIN posted in the SCC ad for the car?

- why wasn't the correct VIN put in the ad once it was discovered to be wrong? (note that the "car has been sold" ad still says "1LA11111".)

- why did they describe the car as "pristine" when clearly it wasn't? (the actual words in the SCC ad are ""This pristine car with just 9,700 miles will please the most discerning eye".)

- why does he think the magnesium wheel issues are only cosmetic and are only due to the wheel detailing time being cut short? His comments were "We carried on with the deal. Unfortunately Roy’s truck arrived to pick up the car while the detailer was in the process of working on the rims. I apologized for not being able to complete the rim detail. When the car arrived at it’s destination, Rick received a call from Kevin noting some of the cosmetic issues. Rick offered to take care of those minor cosmetic items at our cost." Does he think at this point it is a small thing to make those wheels perfect?

- why is SCC even selling a car that has a history of a salvage title being washed across state lines? Didn't SCC discover this from their own CarFax report prior to buying it for their inventory?

And a question for Roy:

- did you personally see that printed CarFax report from August 20, 2008? Clearly that report says the car had previous accident damage and a history of having a salvaged title. Or, perhaps, was it someone else in your organization that got that report and didn't share its contents with you?

.

 

Roy stated earlier in the thread that when he ran the carfax himself the salvage title was not on there.

 

From a strategic perspective, that, my friends, IMHO, is how you answer a post. Brilliant. Seriously. If Jim had done that earlier on, he could have driven the dialogue. Instead, Richard took the bait and got involved in 13 pages of he said/she said. I also like how Jim sidestepped the pristine thing. What possible explanation could he have offered that would have made any sense?

I would have done without the CAPS, and kept it a little less in your face, but I will give him a strong 8 on presentation, a 7 on substance and a 10 on accident avoidance.

I am not saying he is right or wrong, I am saying that Roy could learn a thing or two from Jim's presentation especially the end part where he walks off into the sunset on a high note.

Just my .02

 

WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH YOU MISREPRESENTING AND STEALING SOMEONE ELSES PICTURES ROY? PLEASE DONT CHANGE THE SUBJECT? YOU ARE NOT THAT SMOOTH, answer the question in hand please and dont twist things around, just answer a simple question of why you misrepresent?

 

"This pristine car with just 9,700 miles will please the most discerning eye"



Sorry, guys, I can't get past this description. Puffing is a great sales tradition, but "pristine" for this example is beyond the pale - doesn't pass what I've heard called the "red face test." Put another way, that dog won't hunt. No respect for anyone who offers this car without full disclosure as in Roy's eBay ad. Discerning eyes will buy only from the most reputable of dealers and private sellers, and even then only with appropriate due diligence.

IMO this thread is hurting both of you, and for that matter everyone else who sells exotics and collector cars.

 

Probably good overall actually, the more threads like these, the more buyers will be diligent about researching the car.

 

can someone run a carfax of the car as of today? the one Jim L posted is from 8/20/08. If it does not show the previous salvage title, one can only assume SCC cleared it as Roy accused them. If it does, then Roy just didn't do his homework.

 

Yes, because his word is = the word of god.

 

exactly and then you can decide for yourself who you want to deal with and which dealer is the con artist.