I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but in my opinion the real issue is far from put to bed. Mike has asked a few very specific questions that have, to my knowledge, still not been addressed. Most specifically, whether or not you acknowledge listing a "pristine" car that was anything but.
That's Darth. Love him or detest him; Agree or disagree with him; Side with or against him; tasteful some of the times and others, not so much. A little bit wearing for everyone occasionally, myself included but, he wears it all on his sleeves for everyone to see. There is a lot to be said for that......That's why I love the guy.
So Rick, Are you going to answer these questions or respond to these comments? What if it was one of us who purchased this car? Would have taken 24 pages on an open forum to try and reach an acceptable solution? Regardless of Roy's reputation, your ad speaks for itself, as does the ultimate condition of the car. They clearly do not match. You've stated that you don't purposely misrepresent but there is significant evidence to point to the contrary.
It's not uncommon for customers to call us after the car has been received with an issue. We try the best we can to make our customers happy and take care of problems. We do a high volume of cars per year and we have many satisfied customers. This was a learning experience for me to choose my words better when writing advertisements. I can take all the criticism and would like to leave you with this. I'm a sponsor here on FCHAT. Keep an eye on me. If I'm doing something that you don't approve of. Hold me accountable. I only ask that you give me the benefit of the doubt. Rick
+1 Titanium360 You continue to Troll Roy threads and want to PM everyone that has an issue with you like anyone cares. Why don't you start your own thread and explain exactly what Roy did to you for you to feel the need to stalk him. Then, if you actually have a point maybe everyone won't continue to think you are a troll.
Maybe I'm off base, but here's how I see it. People here are holding you accountable. You have been asked repeatedly to answer questions about this transaction and you've ducked almost all of them. Why should you get a free pass and the benefit of the doubt in the future? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I've been a member of this forum since 2003, have been on "hiatus" for some time, and only recently returned since I've seriously begun to consider buying my first Ferrari. Like many others I've followed this saga from the beginning without comment, but now that it is coming to a conclusion I feel that something has been lost that cannot be restored. For 30 years I've wanted a Ferrari, and haven't been able to financially swing it. Now, as I approach retirement I finally am in a position to fulfill that dream. So what am I to think after reading this thread? As a complete novice how am I to decide which dealer is telling me the full unvarnished truth, and which one is close to the truth but has to sell a car to keep his doors open? Even if my dealer is 100% honest, and I believe that my local independent dealer is 100% honest, what if he was scammed and didn't even know it because of a faulty CarFax or some other paperwork snafu? What if he was not given the 100% truth about the car? I was going to buy one car - only one car - to fill that need of three decades. Understand what that means to me. I've waited to put my kids through school, paid for college, helped them get their first home, and done without for myself so that I could honor my commitment to them as a father, not unlike many others have done. In a few short months I'll become a grandfather - and my personal celebration was to bring home my grandchild in a Ferrari - to share a passion about cars, and about the land of my father's birth that is home to Ferrari. Owning a Ferrari has been a passion for me, something to look forward to after a long time of striving to get the car of my dreams - the car that would make me smile every time I saw it in my garage. The car that would keep me up at night just looking at it, admiring the lines and the engineering that went into it. Over the top - yep, but that is what a Ferrari meant to me. What if that one car that I finally buy is the same one car that even the most highly reputed dealer has shaved the truth on just a bit so that he can get a car off his lot and pay his bills? Or what if that car has undisclosed problems that the CarFax didn't find, and the mechanic I hired to do a PPI had an off day and didn't find something significant? All of these things I've read on this post - all 25 pages of it. Is that what I've waited 30 years for - to buy a car of my dreams and then stay awake at night wondering if I bought the car of my dreams, or a nightmare waiting to pounce? Sorry to all, but to me the Ferrari dream is now officially dead, and it can't be restored. I kind of feel like I did the day I learned that there is no Santa Claus. Am I overreacting, yes, probably. But 25 pages of bashing and airing dirty laundry does that - didn't any of you think of that? The used luxury car market is in bad enough shape without giving me a reason to have "buyer's remorse" even before I buy something. In the days of Bernie Madoff, do the dealers on this site really think that this single post helped any of you? Couldn't any of you stop this train wreck from happening? Did the principals in this saga ever consider anything beyond the immediate issue of a car that isn't even a Ferrari? Was all of this drama necessary? Sorry to rant, but I truly have been influenced by this never ending post - and the result is that I have lost the fire to own the car of my dreams. Hard to believe, but it's true. I overlooked the $6K service costs, the unexpected $4K repair bills, all because I wanted to believe that the car of my dreams was the holy grail of cars. No longer - it's just a car now, like any other. Maybe you should all think about that before starting another post like this. There's a reason why most people don't want to know how sausage is made - they would never buy it.
I dont want to qoute lencap you because its so long.. Don't take offense to this but MAN UP>> If you let these 2 crackerjack(no offense roy or scc) dealers stop your dream then your crazy. Its simple, look at the car yourself, have a ppi done and ask many many questions. Get paint meter reading, Ferrari paint reads a little crazy but you still can tell. If you do your homework it will be hard to screw up. Get a car and enjoy it, taking your new Grandkid home from the hospital might not be a good idea, but sharing the Ferrari with him/her will possibly be a great bonding experience. Again, no disrespect meant but if this turns your stomach what are you going to do when the F-1 pump acts up and your stuck in neutral at the redlight. Dont sweat the small stuff!!
Do you think this is confined to highline aftermarket dealers? Hate to say it but this behavior is status quo for many, many dealers of all kinds of cars. If this thread destroyed your dream for a Ferrari it couldn't have been a strong dream in the first place. I have a dream similar to yours, of a Lamborghini in my future garage. Threads like this are a learning tool. I'm watching, reading, and taking notes. PPI's, title insurance, the proper use of multiple credit cards... these lessons and more I've learned in threads just like this. The most important lesson in these trainwreck threads is this; When buying a car, trust no one. Yeah, there are "reputable" dealers and shysters, but in the end YOU are buying a CAR, not a dealer. If the car I want is at Cats Exotics or SSC I'll be looking into purchasing from them, despite this thread. The car will be Car Fax'd, rigorously PPI'd by one of the shops that are trusted in this business (another reason to read and take notes), inspected by myself first hand, and then if it passes muster I'll buy. If YOU take responsibility for your purchase, instead of trusting in the honor of a dealer (I couldn't even type that with a straight face), you can make sure that you get a good car... regardless of how the guy selling it to you behaves on the internet.
+1 on that. Horror stories abound throughout the entire car industry. From GT-R dealers drag racing cars with delivery miles and then passing them off to customers as new, to Airbags being stolen out of used cars and the new owner not being told. Shoot, when it comes to Ferrari there are sooo many things I would be worried about before being scammed. When I got my Ferrari I spent a year looking, found the car I wanted, did my homework, talked to people who knew the car, and made the purchase. If you have a weak stomach, like I do, you can even hire an expert (ie Phil Tegtmeier) to walk you through the process; still others buy their F-cars from f-chatters with a great reputation. There are so many different avenues to go right now without ever having to go through a wholesaler. Also, remember, cars are cars and you can do all your homework and still end up with a piece of crap, be it a Lexus or a Ferrari. In this case, had the end user actually asked Roy for the Car's vin before he made the purchase, he could have done his own due diligence and squashed this entire thing. I am not saying its his fault---because its not---but with so few Ferraris and Lambos on the road, it is not to difficult to meet someone on a board like this who knows something about your car. For example, in this instance, this Lambo had been written about extensively and it seems the only two people who didn't know its history where Roy and the actual buyer. Heck, before I even went to see my car, other members were sending me photos of its last major!!!! Do not underestimate the resources available to a diligent buyer--especially through F-chat. No offense, but if one thread is all it takes to kill a dream of 30 years, you don't have the stamina for Ferrari ownership.
Man...I guess I got a little rough with Rimoore and got a 7 day ban....I still read the thread every few days and noticed one thing......HE NEVER ANSWERED MY DAMN QUESTION! Whatever..it doesnt matter EVERYONE KNOWS YOU LIED, MISREPRESENTED, and WONT MAN UP WHEN YOU MAKE A MISTAKE. (period) You are the 100% the worst kind of dealer.....actually the worst king of retail business....selling things that are inaccurate and based on lies and then when your caught you wont even try to make them right! I feel sorry for you and people that have relationships with you and I bet your wife, girlfriend or gay lover is disappointed also! LOL!
I never expected rimoore to answer them. Darth hit the nail on the head (as usual) several pages back when he said we already know the answers. If the answer was anything other than what we all know it is, it would have been shouted from the highest rooftops. I for one am glad Roy started the thread, because it clued me in to information I didn't previously know. Including how much markup Roy sometimes has in his cars
Either you have not read the whole thread or you were not sincere with your Ferrari purchase. One of the reasons people like myself read threads like this is the figure out how to avoid the situation. In this case the lesson has been posted numerous times to this thread and that is to inspect the vehicle yourself. Hard to believe doing a in-person vehicle inspection has turned you away from a 30 year dream. -mick
Baky welcome back. Behave yourself or you'll be on timeout again. The only one who actually lied was you...hence the ban. In any case I hope all is well. Rick
I have never posted here but have been reading this forum for quite some time(even before I registered). This is the first post that has really made me what to share my opinion. First of all you did lie. Whether or not you made the condition of the car clear to Roy is completely separate situation. The add clearly said pristine condition, and you have dodged the question. Baky may have been in your face about it, but I read nothing that IMO deserved a ban. You pulling strings, which this quote seems to make clear that you did, because you are a sponsor to have some one banned makes you look even worse. How do Baky lie? Care to enlighten us? Honestly if you actually told us your side of the story, like roy did, and not some bs maybe this thread would not seem so slanted to roy.
Couldn't agree more! I'd yank his sponsorship and send him packing, but that's just me and this isn't my sand box. Roy's not a saint either, but at least he admits when he (frequently ) steps on his appendage.
This crap still going on! A few quick points of observation from a 50 year old with 28 years in the car business. Rick-Listen up- You mentioned you are young and fairly new in the business. Each post is another nail in your coffin. Jim Lyons has years built into that business and you are personally destroying his reputation amongst those who read forums and talk with other people. You must sell a lot of cars, otherwise you would have been fired at most places. Forum readers may still buy from Jim, but they won't buy from you. People make mistakes, and we all usually find out the hard way. Here are a simple three words so you can move on and have a chance at gaining some respect again. I Fu**ED UP! You do need to be sincere though. Roy has years of experience of digging out of holes and stepping on rakes, and I think he enjoys it. Just another challenge for Roy. {I bet Roy was a hell of a Fuller Brush salesman- age requirement to understand}. Jim Lyons will live on with SCC and Roy will live on with Cats Exotics. You are the only one in jeopardy of extinction in the exotic world.
Rick you're a liar. If I was your boss I would have fired you long ago, for ruining my name and business. You should go play dodgeball for aliving since you're an expert at avoiding simple questions from many people. There's a reason you're avoiding answering the question. Because you lied. Roy sticks his foot in his mouth on many occassions, but I trust him. I know who i'll be buying from when I'm ready to buy.
The problem with this thread is that there are only a few people who really know the facts. I'm not going to do any more "he said"/"she said" and won't be baited into responding to any of more of these posts calling me a liar. I've said my peace. I didn't lie. If anyone thinks different then your entitled to your opinion. What Baky did was create a thread in my sponsor forum, which has since been deleted. Your response is a good example of someone making assumptions and coming to the wrong conclusion. Cheers Rick
As rimoore just said, you don't know all the facts; so maybe you should not make the comments or accusations you just did. You really owe him an apology, though rimoore's post apparently contributed to your misunderstanding. Baky was warned about attacking rimoore in an excessive fashion, even for this thread (by me). Attacks, such as calling another user a liar, are normally viewed as warning/banning offenses on Fchat and generally applies to all users (which includes sponsors). Since the two major participants seemed intent on having this discussion in the open, the rules were relaxed to a large extent on this thread (do not take this thread as license to go around calling other users liars or similar attacks on other threads, it will be treated harshly). However, he went beyond even that on this thread and was given a warning. Not content to have more license than usual, and having already been warned, Baky then posted an attack thread on rimoore's sponsor forum. This was a banning offense for at least two reasons: 1) he took it out of the "safe harbor" of this thread to areas where "normal" rules applied, and 2) his action was like a customer's friend (not even the customer!) spraying graffiti on a storefront. He was given a 7-day ban for that (by me). At no time did I ever hear that rimoore contacted any mod to have users given warnings or bans. The judgments relating to Baky were made by me. Period. It is possible that another mod explained the action to rimoore, leading to his comment you quoted, but I don't know that. Now since both major actors are in the process of settling their differences, I strongly suggest that the kibitzers cease the attacks ("you're still a liar"). What was tolerated in the heat of this thread is really not necessary nor appropriate any longer. At this point everyone will walk away with their impressions and personal opinions, which is what the major participants put at risk when they started this.
F cars are cars they aren't built in Heaven and sent to us by Jesus Christ. WTS, they are a PITA and if you don't enjoy, or at least put up with the PITAs, don't buy one. There are great cars out there that aren't typically PITAs. The NSX (Series 2 especially), Lotus Elise (drop in a Honda K20 or B conversion for > F performance)...many others. If what you find out is that you high school sweetheart has warts, AIDS and herpes, get another sweetheart.
