To Turbo or not Turbo that is the question

As a 458 owner I would love to believe that Ferrari switching to turbo engines for the 458 will help keep the value of my naturally-aspirated 458 Spider high. As a realist however I'm 100% certain this WON'T be the case. In fact I expect it will make the value of my 458 decrease faster than it normally would have if Ferrari had kept with NA engines.

Ferrari are doing a great job optimizing their cars from model to model. I expect the new 458 will be significantly better than the current one and the engine modification won't be the only improvement they make. They're likely do some styling changes and improve the gadgetry as well.

Ferrari are good at making engines. Their turbo engine won't suck. In fact it WILL be an improvement over the current engine in performance and smoothness. They'll find a way to make it still sound great.

But I'll still enjoy my 458 Spider and I'll try not to be jealous of the people who get the newer one. I'll also try to resist upgrading and try to wait until there's an entirely new model (as opposed to the refresh) to do that. Of course, I said "try"

 

Ditto, though I expect a responsiveness debit in the turbo. But I would be happy to be surprised.

 

The Ferrari-world keeps on turning, as always.
Great post Mark!

 

The F40 was a V8 turbo and it definitely did not suck.

 

I'm interested in seeing how many Cali 30 owners migrate over to the T. Does make sense to keep Spider and wait for entirely new model to come out. Power Cube warranty will be cheaper than going to 458M spider and changing again to 468 spider or whatever entirely new model is called. My experience driving GTR and 911 Turbo has been less than stellar. I place a premium on immediate responsiveness and linearity of throttle I enjoy with the Spider.

 

Has anyone heard the California T yet? The engine in the 458 replacement will probably sound like that.

Worth noting that the McLaren 12C engine note is somewhat subdued due to using turbos. Just as well it delivered in other areas.

 

Re the California T, speed of response is achieved by having two small scroll turbos. The software actually limits boost in the lower gears to give a further sensation of responsiveness. But the flip side is that the small turbos are limited in how much air they can move through the engine. Thus the redline is only 7500 RPM, which will not cut it in a 458-type car.

The high volume turbos of the 12C do deliver, but they also have a lot of turbo lag, which I personally do not find acceptable.

 

Just recently test drove a Huarya, lots of turbo lag and whistles so def. not my style;
that being said when the turbos do spool up oh boy!!

 

I agree with Mark. The F40 wasn't made turbo due to environmental concerns. It was a different time.

I think its too soon to know if we will keep our Italias, or upgrade. We have to wait and see what happens. I'm leaning to keep my Italia though for all the obvious reasons. I just think Ferrari really nailed it so well with the Italia.

 

I wouldn't use the f40 as a turbo guidline. I think 99% would not be happy with the turbo lag. Its not appropriate for a modern street car.

 

I have a 12C Spider with the latest software upgrade (P13), in my opinion there is no turbo lag, the power is very linear and direct. Not sure about the turbo's spec, but the turbos are ready to go at about 3K RPM's, redlines @ 8.5K and the car delivers ~ 450 ft/lb of torque. My wife's SL550, now that has turbo lag...1) 1,000, 2) 1,000 3) 1,000...lift off.

I believe Ferrari will easily deliver a great product to their customers and they will line up to buy the next generation 458T, the real question is; can they maintain the trademark sound? I have the sport exhaust on the 12C, not bad, real good for a turbo, but not a wailing NA V8 from Modena.

MB

 

Sound will suffer for sure

 

Excellent post and right on, by the way nice seeing you on Saturday at Supercar Saturday at Lambo/McLaren, your car looks great.

 

Same here. The 650S raise the torque figure to 500ft/lb and drops the "turbos ready to go" RPMs a few hundred to make a fast car even faster.

BTW, don't buy that nonsense about the 12C/650S not being exciting to drive or that the N/A engine in the Ferrari makes it more responsive than the 12C. It's a mind trick. The Ferrari has a hyperactive throttle (to go with its over-boosted steering) that has a short throw so it kicks off the line with very little foot pressure applied giving you the feeling it's really fast. Whereas if you push the McLaren pedal only as far as it takes to get the Ferrari to jump off the line you get a very smooth take off like a high-performing luxury sports car (think Mercedes SL63 or Audi R series). That makes it better to drive around town because you lose some of the Ferrari's tendency to lurch off the line.

However that's the mind trick because if you push the McLaren pedal down hard you get a lift off that the Ferrari in incapable of - an instant surge of power that keeps kicking you in the back right up to redline. But in-between those two positions there's a great depth of control that allows you to control the torque really nicely around a race track.

BTW my experience has been that it takes people several weeks to unprogram their brain from the way Ferrari does it and reprogram their brain to the way McLaren does it. Once your brain learns how far to push the throttle on the McLaren it opens up the car in ways that blow your mind. I think the reason why you see reviewers calling the Ferrari more exciting is because they didn't spend enough time with the McLaren (or hopped around among different cars too often) to really get comfortable with the large range of control it has. On the 650S that large range situation now extends to the carbon ceramic brakes as well - they're just amazing this time out. Now when I go back to the Ferrari from the McLaren the Ferrari feels slow to me so I can easily see how Ferrari will change that when they go from N/A engine to turbo engine and I, for one, am excited about a turbo 458 for that reason.

So, while this is a gross exaggeration for the purposes of explaining it, you can think of the Ferrari as binary (all on/off) and the McLaren as analogue (selectable by throttle pressure) when it comes to the throttle.

I expect one of the optimizations Ferrari will employ going from 458 to it's turbo-replacement is to copy McLaren's deeper throttle adjustability. My FF has deeper throttle control than my 458 Spider but still not as adjustable as my 12C Spider. My 650S arrives this week!

 

It already happened to the California. The car (with turbo) will be much faster, drive better (you won't notice much in 458 because the gap for dynamic improvement is small, unlike the Cali), I believe it will look good, BUT IT WON'T SOUND GOOD.

 

And judging by the Cali-T, it won't have the throttle response of the previous, N/A model, either.

 

Sounds like they dialed down the boost so it feels more linear. Can't replicate the exhaust though. Drove to work with rear window down as usual this morning and the engine wails in race mode even in 3rd gear.