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To use fuel additive or not, that is the question

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by rustytractor, Apr 15, 2012.

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  1. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
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    Russell Schacter
    #1 rustytractor, Apr 15, 2012
    I recently bought a 1978 400 auto which is in excellent original condition with 35,000 miles on the clock and full history from day one. So far I've covered 1000 miles with no problems whatsoever, the only expense being a carb tune up and repair to a faulty distributor.

    The guy who tuned the car recommended using super unleaded fuel which makes sense and felt that using fuel additive probably wasn't necessary as the mileage I'd be doing will be relatively low.

    The previous owner did 15,000 miles in total in 8 years and always used Redex which didn't include an octane booster but i assume provided valve lubrication as leaded petrol is long since dead.

    I'm not sure what the best course of action is and any advice would be much appreciated.

    Thanks, Russell.
     
  2. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    #2 cheesey, Apr 15, 2012
    you don't mention what you want the fuel additive to do...

    fuel additives are specific in what they try to do...

    fuel additives are preventative measures to keep specific things from happening and have their place
     
  3. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 simon klein, Apr 15, 2012
    I'd be pretty sure he means a valve lube type of thing,not a so called power enhancement type of waste of money,as most of us know.
     
  4. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 simon klein, Apr 15, 2012
    As an after thought to my reply.....strewth you must have fun negotiating your Caddy through London!!
     
  5. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    #5 rustytractor, Apr 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

    Sorry, maybe wasn't as clear as I should have been. Not worried about boosting performance as I'm more than happy with that at the moment. My concern is solely about undue wear tear to the valves due to lead -free fuel.

    Do these engines have hardened valve seats hence don't need lubricating additive ? I don't profess to know too much about the cars engine internals so thought it best to check before making an expensive mistake.

    Re the Cadi, to be honest I've had the old girl for 22 years and am so used to driving her around that I don't have any problems at all. I've attached pictures of both cars in case anyone's interested.
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  6. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 Ashman, Apr 16, 2012
    I don't think that you need to worry. Since the 400 has an aluminum block and aluminum heads, the valve seats had to be hardened out of necessity even in the days of leaded fuels.
     
  7. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    #7 rustytractor, Apr 16, 2012
    thanks Ashman, I thought this would be the case but wanted to make sure as I'd hate to do damage through ignorance or stupidity and risk a hefty bill.
     
  8. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #8 greyboxer, Apr 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There's a lot of questions that have been asked and answered before and this not surprisingly is one but since its not been posted for a while this eventually came from Ferrari - in effect it reinforces what you were told ie its probably preferable to use Shell V Power or equal rather than regular unleaded and no additive is needed
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    Bowzer likes this.
  9. ricar116

    ricar116 Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2005
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    #9 ricar116, Apr 16, 2012
    Thats good to know. Any lead additive I have ever used smells horribly. Stabil smells as well, but is a good insurance policy if you have a couple of rows of carbs, may help with you jettronic folks that drive sparingly.
     
  10. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    #10 rustytractor, Apr 16, 2012
    I agree about the smell - not pleasant at all. I had the Engine rebuilt in my Cadi 18 years ago before leaded fuel disappeared so didn't fit hardened valve seats. Consequently I ended up using Castrol Valvemaster additive which acts as a lubricant but smells like s**t.

    I don't do enough miles in the old girl to justify the expense of removing the heads so just wear a gas mask instead - cheaper and somewhat stylish in a strange, perverse way.

    Thanks to all for clearing this up - I can now blat the 400 around at warp factor 10 without a care in the world...... except

    speeding fines
    the cost of fuel
    the engine going bang
    paranoia about theft and vandalism
    the risk of being hit by drivers looking at me instead of the road
    world peace
    business going down the tube and invaders from space

    - other than that all's well with the world !!
     
  11. ricar116

    ricar116 Formula Junior

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    #11 ricar116, Apr 16, 2012
    Ha Ha Ha
     
  12. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
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    Alastair Houston
    #12 alastairhouston, Apr 16, 2012
    Good stuff may I add
    trying to three point turn without looking like a prat
    wet roads (most of the time in uk)
    intermitent electrical faults
    oil consumption equivelent of ship
    love the tailgaiter one too especially those edging closer to see the badge on the back trying to figure out what kind of car it is
    dont worry about the theft or vandalism though because people see its a classic and feel sympathetic so leave you alone and for anti theft leave a note for would be theves underlining the aforementioned and they will probably leave you some cash to help

    Enjoy Regards
    Alastair
     
  13. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    #13 rustytractor, Apr 16, 2012
    Very true but can I clarify the term "3 point turn" please.

    Has your 400 been adapted to manage this mythical feat? How much did it cost? Last time I tried I achieved a 6 point turn but luckily I was in a 200 foot wide empty car park or I wouldn't have made it !

    On the subject of oil consumption, is yours really that bad and is it indicative of most of this series of cars?
     
  14. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    #14 rustytractor, Apr 16, 2012
    plus does anyone ever get an electrical gremlin whereby the indicator lights on the dash both sometimes illuminate when the side lights are first turned on when it's cold or damp? There's no problem externally, only on the dash and it goes away after a few mins when the car warms up a bit. Weird!
     
  15. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 simon klein, Apr 16, 2012
    Strewth,you blokes have'nt a clue as to 3(or how ever many it takes)point turns.
    Just put the thing on full lock and hit the loud pedal......you'll be facing the opposite direction before you know what's going on!!
     
  16. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    #16 rustytractor, Apr 16, 2012
    Shame on you - speeding like that would be against the law in England and therefore not an option for us law abiding citizens.

    No, I prefer to stick to 30mph at all times and would be absolutely disgusted to find out that any Ferrari driver in the UK did otherwise!
     
  17. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

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    #17 SouthJersey400i, Apr 16, 2012
    Rusty
    Has UK made you use the dreaded ethanol in your fuel. If yes, than there are specific fuel additives that are quite important especially for low use cars. If no, my only worry will be varnish in your carbs from sitting too long. I'm not sure if fuel injector cleaner helps that issue.
    Ken
     
  18. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    #18 rustytractor, Apr 16, 2012
    Hi Ken,

    To the best of my knowledge ethanol isn't used in the UK yet but it will no doubt be introduced at some point.

    I use the car very regularly so don't think that the varnish issue will be a problem - plus petrol is more expensive than Uranium here so if I was to lay the car up I'd probably drain the fuel and sell it on eBay !
     
  19. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
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    Alastair Houston
    #19 alastairhouston, Apr 17, 2012
    I must try the Simon Klien manouver sounds much fun love the 6 point turn too
    On the oil 1.5 litres every 1000kms or 600 miles is the normal consumption definitely something you need to be constantly aware of.
    I use 10w60 millers fully synthetic
     
  20. theobordeaux

    theobordeaux Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Theodore
    #20 theobordeaux, Apr 17, 2012

    Thank you greyboxer for this information, can you give us references and the date of this information from Ferrari, please?
    I'll post on our forum for the series 365GT 2 +2 / 400/412.

    Théodore
    http://www.f400club.com/forum/
     
  21. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #21 greyboxer, Apr 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As far as I can tell it was downloaded from here in about October 2005 as thats the date on the file so you could try looking for yourself around then if you need more back-up

    For the benefit of those who need it PDF for whatever reason
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  22. theobordeaux

    theobordeaux Formula Junior

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    #22 theobordeaux, Apr 17, 2012
  23. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

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    #23 rustytractor, Apr 17, 2012
    Alastair,

    I'm honestly not trying to be funny here but I've done around 1000 miles in the 400 since I bought it and it hasn't used any oil at all. The mileage I've done is mainly short journeys with the odd "foot down" blast so was wondering if oil consumption increases significantly on longer, faster journeys or with constantly higher revs ?
     
  24. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 simon klein, Apr 17, 2012
    I'm with you(well 365 wise),I have just completed a 2800 mile rally,including the 2200 miles needed to get there!,and did'nt use any oil.
    This included some very unlawfull,constant speeds of up to 240 miles in one stint.
     
  25. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
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    #25 alastairhouston, Apr 17, 2012
    Russell, Simon
    Very interesting, I am not an expert by any means and our cars are from a very similar era ie carbueretted mines 77 GT so all very similar age so worth comparing.

    The book says as I mentioned 1.5liters every 600 miles and just as well i wrote it down cos just gone out to the garage to find the file recording my blast around europe 2400 miles I burned (or lost!) 7 litres the book would rekon 6 litres for the same albeit I was driving the car at full speed most of the time!!!!!

    At this point the engine had done around 25000 miles since major overhall and has done 76 000 overall. I am currently doing front cover timming etc so will be good to try again to get more oil consumption data (another blast around europe!!)

    Would be great if you guys could try to check exact usage once the level goes down, I just dont have the knowledge to guess why there might be a lower usage once cars are in a certain usage or age etc one things for sure sounds like a good thing to me no oil getting used.
    Regards
    Alastair
     
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