At the risk of being controversial by ruffling some people's feathers, I would say that the rot in F1 started during the Schumacher/Ferrari era, where the race results became too predictable. Don't get me wrong, Michael Schumacher was the best driver then, and Ferrari a superb team, but when you know almost race after race who's going to win, that takes away the excitement. 5 titles on the trot never happened before, but a certain boredom started to invade F1, and the exodus started. People stopped following F1 then; I know a few. But at that time, the world audience wasn't measured as it is now, and at least F1 could be watched on TV for free!! Happy days !!! The Vettel/Red Bull era, and the Mercedes domination in the last 3 years are pale in comparison with the Schumacher era.
Completely agree. As I said I stopped watching for the first time ... If they had dropped the team orders I might have continued watching but it was a bore, even after patiently waiting for 21 years. The 94 to 2002 were the best Schumacher years to watch; just awesome. I've included 2002 because the F2002 was something special, very special. Pete
She's simply saying sound matters (it does), she's not saying that if F1 noise was better no one would've moaned at the Mercedes domination in the last 3 years. Sound/noise is part of the show. No one would pay money to see a band play or go to a festival if they play at the equivalent volume of background noise. Feeling the cars in your chest as they start up a kilometer away in a straight line, it's excitement. My little brothers aren't particularly interested in racing but I took them to F1 last year. As we arrived on the Friday the F1 practice was almost finished. Shortly after the GP2 cars came out, and they had a HUGE smile on their face, it was dead exciting to them. After the break, the F1 cars where out again....about 20 minutes into the session they asked me ''when are the cool F1 cars coming out again?''. F1 failed to capture their potential future audience. GP2 did. Noise is important still.
I reckon if they changed the v6 included angle to 120 or 60 degrees the sound would improve. Nobody, even Maserati, has ever made a good sounding 90 degree v6. And yes interesting Bas. They need to fix the sound quality and volume, not necessarily go back to just IC engines. Pete
But this is near impossible on the present generation of hybrid engines in F1. First the turbos muffle the sound Second the revs on a turbo engine will never be able to match and atmospheric engine Third, the engine is wrapped in ancillaries and energy recovery components that also reduce the sound. Let's face it, it's a drawback of this system. If the people cannot get over it and get used to reduced sound, the FIA may decide that the whole hybrid formula has to be thrown away. I suspect the main players, like Renault, Mercedes and Honda (no lost there) would just depart, leaving more than half the grid without engines. Maybe they already do not intend to stay beyond 2020 anyway ...
Yep I mentioned it a few times before, just the engine note needs to change primarily (and a tad louder). The Tag-Porsche 80 degree V6 (twin turbo) sounded great imo, and that revved to lower than current cars do. Like William says, it's the ancillaries that also make a big difference to sound quality...The single turbo for starters doesn't help, and the way energy recovered (from exhaust gasses) is just a horrendous rattle (especially noticeable on the Honda). That's one of the reasons why I say to simplify the engine. Of course I'd be happiest with a V10 or 12 NA, but I'm also open to twin turbo V8 or TT V6, but just make it sound good.
But, do we need a lot of passings and changes of positions to have a race? Sometimes they happen during pit stops. Motor racing is not only about overtaking, is it? Why should a driver in a better car be passed by a follower? It's good if it happens, but the race cannot be called "boring" if it don't.
True but we had a battle for the lead for once ☺ Did you watch the Ferrari MS years, never any passing on the track just tactical pitstops ... As I've said many times, on track passing will only return if pitstops are banned. It's not aero that stops passing it is pitstops meaning there is a low risk way of achieving the same thing. Bernie again through his meddling has caused this all apparently because watching somebody change a tyre is interesting ... absolutely not! Pete
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tech-analysis-f1-s-engine-options-past-2020-889758/ ''F1 manufacturers agree that Road relevance need not be the primary factor'' LOL So much for all of them leaving in a huff, eh?
another good sign from a motorsport perspective. I do agree for an experimental class for the big 3 (MB, Renault, Honda and if Ferrari wants to join in) that want to pursue the "road-relevance" aspect of it since they are heavily diverse in their marketing strategy(a 3rd car maybe). Agree that F1 needs to remain a motorsport with more driver skill and "entertainment."
I think you confuse 'road relevance' with brand relevance (or whatever the suitable term might be). There is no return to the glorious V12 or similar. It seems apparent that they change the direction on the same course: down sized hybrid PUs with turbo charger. Depending on your perspective you can equally argue nothing has changed.
I think Bas would be fine with any config all the way down to a V-6 bi-turbo with KERS as long as the exhaust note is better than the current hybrid PU.
All there is is the vague promise of making more noise. But the hybrid system stays. I haven't heard that the constructors were screaming to bring V12 atmo back!!!
William & co have been battering on about that the hugely complicated engines are absolutely neccesary, and dropping them will cause manufacturers to run away. Manufacturers agree that the overpriced, overly complicated engines should be dropped... Yep. Twin turbo V6 with KERS, as I've said before...I'd be happy with...just do away with all the pointless complicated stuff. Partial hybrid. Just the KERS. Not all the hybrid junk that recovers energy by ways of magic. I've been saying it for a while now, simplify the engines whether they're 4 liter V10/12s with ERS, or V6/V8 twin turbo with ERS. It's bring cost down and power up. Seems the manufacturers think the same way.
You have changed your tune! Before, you were advocating the atmo V8 as the only salvation to bring back people to F1. But now you would accept a half-way solution, but still hybrid!! Remarkable U-turn! If I read correctly the various articles in Motorsport, the Judge13 and else, the concensus among the participants would been just to adopt 2 turbos instead of one, and to abandon the MGU-U, whilst conserving the MGU-K, even with the possibility to link it to the front axle (did I read that right?). It would still be very much an hybrid formula, and far from atmospheric V8!!! How they will improve the noise, is open to speculation; my guess is that they won't be able to do too much on that issue.
Bull**** http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/145297438-post53.html You even replied to it! Also goes to prove that you read sweet **** all, not with an open mind whatsoever. I've never said going back to full atmospheric engines (V8 at that!) is the one and only way to bring back people to F1. It's part of the problem, the sound, that I do say very often, and a solution would be to bring back NA engines WITH KERS, but open to the idea of V6/V8 twin turbo with KERS.
Yes, overtaking is necessary to have an interesting race. And overtaking when cars are sitting still does not count. Unless, of course, you want F1 to be NASCAR.
Dude, you are one of the respected contributors here. This tone doesn't suit you well. The same what you claim could be said about yourself, read below.
But if overtaking doesn't happen in a race, because the cars fall in line depending on their speed and the ability of their drivers, what do you suggest? Create overtaking opportunities by "bunching up" the field? Bring the safety every so often to negate the advantage of the leader(s) ? This sounds very artificial to me, and a way of handicapping the best. Sometimes, overtaking isn't meant to happen because some cars and drivers are just well above the rest, and romp away from the start.
Sorry mate but William has been very adamant that the complicated engines are absolutely necessary. He's been jamming down my throat that apparently all that needs doing in my opinion is stick a big V12 (or V8, his words) and all will be well in the world of F1. That's incredibly narrow minded of him, how many times have I ranted at what needs doing to sort F1 out properly? How much into detail I've written about it? And all he does is pin point one thing: Big NA engine and all will be well. The current engines, regardless if they sound **** or not, are just not working out due to their extraordinary cost. William doesn't care and sticks with his guns, saying they're necessary, even if it'll be the death of F1.
I expect better engineering quality so that more cars are competitive up front. The drivers up front are already competitive. Not one of them is heads above the rest. I watch racing for the racing. If I wanted to watch a parade, I'd go to a parade.
