Todt proposes common engines for F1 and WEC

Discussion in 'F1' started by vinuneuro, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:45 PM.

  1. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro Formula 3
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    Something sensible from the FIA for a change.

    http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/f1-engines-24-hours-le-mans-could-become-reality

    FIA president Jean Todt says he hopes Formula 1's new engines for 2021 might be adapted for use in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

    Plans for a world engine were scrapped when the current F1 rules were introduced in 2014, but now Todt says the 2021 rules are an opportunity to try again.

    "At the moment, we have separate engine regulations for every series," he told European media outlet Auto Motor und Sport. "It doesn't have to be like that. The requirements for Formula 1 and the World Endurance Championship are similar. A Formula 1 engine has to do about 5,000 kilometers, which is about the Le Mans distance.

    "Having one engine concept would be attractive to new manufacturers, and it could mean F1 teams can go to Le Mans with their own team, or vice versa."
     
  2. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

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    So there it is. He wants F1 to build engines for use in F1 AND endurance racing?

    Hopefully I'm not the only one who thinks this is anything BUT sensible. The types of racing and what these two series are supposed to be about are completely at odds with each other.
     
  3. RWatters

    RWatters Formula Junior

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    Isn't Porsche keeping their LMP engine program alive despite not running an LMP car?
     
  4. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula Junior

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    The difference between endurance and F1 (regarding engines) was obvious when an F1 engine was supposed to last only one race, with the rules drastically limiting the number of engines per season they could be very similar.
    If F1 reverts to allowing one engine per race it will not make sense, but with the current situation it does - also because if you look at WEC, they have reached a level of reliability where each race is like a sprint, no matter if it's a 6h of 24h race; actually sometimes you think drivers are more in "economy mode" in F1 than in WEC.
    Using the engines for both series is sensible given what they are today, whether they should be something else (specially F1) is another question.
     
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  5. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 Rookie
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    yep.....maybe saving it for F1 or maybe someone told them not to fold up just yet in WEC as something "will come along the way very soon."
     
  6. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Just when I thought my hatred for the FIA and Todt's fantasies couldn't get any stronger.
     
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  8. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro Formula 3
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    #7 vinuneuro, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:24 PM
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 3:32 PM
    Since cost constraints seem to be a priority for pretty much all stakeholders, it's doubtful we'll ever go back to an engine per weekend.

    Most of the current reliability issues stem from MGH-H and it's integration with the turbo. After 2021 even Honda should be able to make a reliable engine. And it's not like the current engine can't be reliable, for the most part Merc and Ferrari have done ok.
    The main issue with the current regs that forces drivers to drive for conservation is driven by the fuel caps . Even Ferrari and Merc still do fuel saving at some circuits.

    So if we're going to have limited engine pool per season anyway, it would be great if there is some cross-relevance between F1 and WEC so that we have teams like Ferrari and McLaren in WEC and LeMans as well. And so it makes sense for manufacturers like VW/Porsche and independent engine mfrs like AER, who primarily have an interest in endurance racing, to be potential engine suppliers in F1.

    AND even the current F1 engines designed to do 4 or 5 races could do much longer distances if run. Merc already said their engine could have done 8 races per season if run at a lower output. They could easily design an F1 engine and turn it down for LeMans.
     
  9. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

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    It used to be long ago "in the good old days" you could use the same engine design for both F1 and Le Mans, perhaps just different gearing, cam's, and rev limit.

    A good move to make the same engine eligible for both. It also removes a big cost barrier for Ferrari to re-enter the top of the Le Mans field; which I would love to see.
     
  10. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    The life of a current F1 engine is about 1000 miles (5 races) whereas WEC cars go 3,000 miles at leMans.

    Take 1,000 RPMs from the F1 engine Red Line and the pistons, valves, rods, and crank can survive 3,000 miles--but can the turbos? Valve seats?
     
  11. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think Ferrari did 8 races on their turbo this year (and costing them dearly)
     
  12. TheMayor

    TheMayor Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I actually think this is a bad idea.

    The closer we get to spec racing, the worse the racing will be.
     
  13. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Sergio Sweater will not like equating F1 and Endurance
     
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  15. johnireland

    johnireland Karting
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    Todt is just trying to spread the costs around to keep the ICE part of racing alive a little while longer...until the batteries take over and Elon Musk is made Pres of FIA.
     
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  16. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Where he is planning a GP on Mars ;)
     
  17. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    They did it once....and it was the end of group C...this guys will never learn.....
     
  18. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie
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    An interesting idea, but instinctively I don't like it. F1 is sprint racing. WEC is endurance racing. The engine needs for both are fundamentally different.

    Having said that, if it encourages manufacturers, like Ferrari, to participate in both formulas, then it could be a good thing - but if, and only if, it doesn't turn F! into an endurance series where the drivers are constantly managing fuel and energy rather than RACING.
     
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  19. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    We have a bit of the bolded going on now - it appears to me...
     
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  20. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    WE do, and it's crap
     
  21. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ
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    A bit?
     
  22. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    I guess I did forget tire management as well :)
     
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  23. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

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    I've read in Race Car Engineering that there is a possibility to return in 2019 or 2020 due to rules changing for something different and better. We will see..
     
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  24. E60 M5

    E60 M5 Moderator
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    I gotta agree with this statement.
     
  25. Peter Tabmow

    Peter Tabmow Formula Junior

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    They're building an F1 engine which will be badged with one of the VAG brands (so far undecided). This makes sense, as Porsche are the ones with the recent non-diesel hybrid experience.
     
  26. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    FIA have been turning F1 from a sprint series into an endurance one for years. The current meta is to see who can go the slowest in the fastest manner...and no wonder 100's of millions of people are tuning out. Think about this for a moment. Almost 200,000,000 people have given up on F1 since Todt has been running it. How shocking is that, and how shocking that he hasn't been fired YEARS AGO. I mean...2 HUNDRED MILLION people have quit watching F1. It's hard to find a bigger Uck Fup than Todt, yet here he is still running the show.

    FIA murdered WRC and WEC, and this move will most certainly add to the body count.
     
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  27. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro Formula 3
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    #25 vinuneuro, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:52 AM
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 11:00 AM
    It is not spec racing. They are mostly free to develop. Proof of this is in Merc having a 80-90hp advantage over Honda and a good 30-50hp over Renault.

    F1 should not be spec racing, it's against the DNA. But it would make the racing better, not worse. You'd have less performance disparity between teams.

    The main issues in F1 right now are:

    1. Power and reliability disparity between mfrs
    2. Noise
    3. Aero turbulence
    4. Fuel saving at some circuits

    There is no tire management today. Many races were 1 stop this season. They need to and are introducing more tire degradation for 2018.
     
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