http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=41729
As I've said before Jean Todt has to kick Ferraris @rse otherwise he will dig a hole for HIMSELF. Very stupid Ferrari, as the article and I have said before, Ferrari had plenty of time to dispute the team orders rule. I predict as the article says that they will loose both positions for both the WDC and WCC. If they loose the WDC by a few points they will only have them-stupid-selves to blame. Pete
Pitpass is only trying to drag Todt in the frame to get the maximum punishment for the British most feared opponent, Ferrari. And some revenge for what Mosley did to McLaren. But Todt doesn't have to do a thing, he's not the judge in this case. He can and will stay out of the limelight (if he's smart which I think there's no doubt about that).
They ask for Todt´s involvement when he was the main reason of the enforcement of this rule back in 2001! He´s in a loose-loose position. Staying away is the only thing he can do. I didn´t like Todt as FIA president because this situations always will generate controversy.
+1 now the rule is an issue but not before. Ferrari get what they deserve this time. If the WMSC has the nerve to do something about it. If choosing between fans and Ferrari who do you think will win this?? Fans havent won yet.
I think you hit the core of the problem. Is F1 a sport or entertainment? If you think it's the latter then it's understandable people are upset about team orders, but as far as I know F1 at least started out as a sport, to win. Team orders fit a sport perfectly. It's all a matter of perspective and it seems that in recent years the perspective has shifted from sport to entertainment.
Neither, its a business. A very big business and profits will always be the prime concern. Not necessarily a bad thing. As long as those in charge keep in mind that the fans have to be kept happy.
1 down 4 to go on the new threads on this count. It does seem that Ferrari does not care about F1 fans only Ferrari fans and that is a problem for F1 and the FIA and ultimately for Ferrari. Money Quote ""What Ferrari did was blindingly stupid and a clear breach of the rules. They ought, at the least, to lose both positions. That would be bad luck on Massa but he should have said: 'I'm sorry, I can't do that, it's against the rules'. I know one or two drivers who would have said just that. He could have added that he agreed Alonso was quicker and no doubt would make further attempts to overtake."
Its a great opportunity to do away with the team orders ban. Everyone has been doing it so lets be real. However he will probably walk the moderate line between harsh punishment and Ferrari International Assistance leniency. This may not be a battle worth fighting. I like the comments made by David Hobbs when he addressed the "fans dont like team orders" position in that he said TRUE fans of the sport are realistic enough to understand the necessity of team orders. As he said he was on the other side of the stick when he had to let J Ickx ( ? ) win a race where there were no points involved ( I am assuming LeMans ) when he was leading by a lap. Team orders may not be pretty but they are a part of the sport. I still cannot believe Ferrari ( and others ) are stupid enough not to have code phrases.
Still, what defines a team order? Is saying that the other driver is faster than you an order? No. If Smedley had said: Felippe, move over for Alonso, THAT is an order. It's all hypocricy.
Its freaking simple this, Ferrari stuck two fingers up at the FIA doing what they did, and to make matters worse Joe public were probably rooting for Massa as a year ago he nearly lost his life, folk like a fairy story. In the last few races we have seen: Redbull, Webber leading on save fuel mode with Vettel on flat out mode, with the excuse Hamilton was chasing him down, ok as I have said IMO Webber thought ok then F-it am not playing 2nd fiddle made it hard, Vettel crashes into him, ok fair play IMO. Then: next race Mclaren team mates battling it out, until the call came SAVE FUEL! no problem they both understood and backed off, or more so JB did. On both occasions the save fuel save engine, you name it was called, the FIA cannot prove otherwise, unless they really choose to, but they won't thats until there is a public outcry like Smedley saying sorry to Massa ect. It stinks pointing out the obvious to the mass public and the FIA, thats why they have to look to be doing something about it. It was all caused by Ferrari making it to damn obvious, Todt now has a dilemma.
Smedly said and I quote: "Fernando is faster. Than. You. Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?" AND THAN he said something to the effect of: "Sorry mate, you're a good bloke" after the pass... THAT was a team order and you can't get around it....
So, let us be real. What kind of penalty is fair for all teams in the sport of F1--certainly not a monetary penalty. $1.29 would kick some teams out of the sport for good, while $100M would not really phase the top 4. So, a monetary fine is simply not acceptable here. What would be acceptable is to ban Ferrari from 1 race this season (or remove points from all cars in any race such orders are used). This is the kind of penalty that no team can afford (nor their sponsors) and yet is fair and saves the team money (short term). Another thing that would be fair is to simply rescind the "no team orders" rule. A third ruling that would also be fair is to remove 25+20* points from the team caught using team orders. This is enough of a penalty that no team (outside of Ferrari 2004) could afford. {(*) yes more that a first and second place put together.} But the middle ground simply won't work.
Even worse, fans have to decide if they prefer team orders or fake fights between team mates. Probably they prefer the second, as in these days F1 is very similar to WWF.
The rule is foolish and unenforceable unless blatantly ignored as Ferrari did. Get rid of it and stop the hypocrisy.
+1, but if Ferrari get away with it (ie. don't loose WDC points) the other teams will go nuts because they would arguably be in a better position in the WDC by now ... Pete
Agreed, this is it, that is why I said Todt has a dilemma, lest us not forget why the rule was brought in in the first place... So it seems hypocrisy and irony reign supreme, however this is how Mosley ruled the sport with grey areas ect, Todt has his work cut out to put it right. Being consistant and fair with the rules is my concern, and always has been.
Well AFAIK Todt has stated he wanted to make the rules more open and transparent, it will be a slow process as and when all the variables in them arise, I suppose. I smell something fishy....> Happy new Avatar..
I wonder what Ferrari's strategy is in this matter? Did they think things through, are they working behind the scenes to either get the rules changed or to limit the damage? Do they have any grasp on the situation at all?
Ha ha!! Given the lack of clear strategic thinking at Ferrari what grasp have they had. They certainly had no idea how to handle FA's inability to pass, when needed, Felipe. Frankly I hope they suffer badly and I say that as a Ferrari fan. This was completely avoidable to say the least. If that was the best they could do then firing Domensilly and the lot of them will be a good start. Frankly they paid way way too much for FA, if he needs help from Daddy to pass his little brother. The whole episode highlights how weak this team is. The management and both the drivers. Yet Im not silly enough to think any change at all is coming. Its becoming easier to enjoy races won by other teams with Ferrari as it is this year. Refreshing actually to gather more of the sport in as whole rather than always seeing only red. Im a fan of F1 not just Ferrari again.
I'm not thinking about these guys. They can't hold a candle to Todt/Brawn. I was thinking about Di Montezemolo.
