Tony George makes another run for Champcar

Won't agree with you on the IRL, I see stats that show close finishes w/o using NASCAR yellow flag tactics. Besides, the best "statistic" is that IRL has all of the better teams. Wouldn't be true if IRL was "a pig".

The Disney oval is actually very nice, the perfect size for an open wheeled venue. They never had permanent grandstands though. I find the larger tracks like Homestead very scary, and even watching from the top of the grandstands I find the speeds to bo insane and dangerous. So dangerous, I do not go, I do not want to watch the inevitable.

 

Thanks, i was beginning to think, that i was on everyones ignore list!

 

I'd love to see financials on Tony,... and how much money he's lost since he started the IRL and harpooned open wheel racing in the USA. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Tony might have done more for NASCAR than any one man in the past 12 years

 

I have a buddy that worked for an IRL team. Word around the teams was that the Holman empire, that Tony presides over was worth about a billion. Was? Now? Who knows.

 

I somehow doubt the family trustees would let him piss away the family fortune.

 

Let's see, a vast acreage in Speedway Indiana, located on which is a huge 100 year old motor racing facility, owned free and clear. Add in half of Terre Haute, Indiana and who knows what else, and that's just the tangible assets.....

The few million distributed to the leaching teams of the IRL was a pittance..... Unlike welfare, the big dog cut the cord when the recipients weren't interested in self sufficiency.

That's how I hear it from insiders......

B.

Of course, the Chumpcar owners didn't go as deep into their pockets, or did they????

 

The owners of ChumpCar had pockets with holes in them.

 

Both sides have blood on their hands in this. The people that really controlled the changing of the tide in terms of strength are Honda and Toyota. They gave huge cash to the teams, supplied drivers, etc, when they were in Champ Car that league had all the strength, when they switched to the IRL the teams all followed because they needed that big engine backing and the money from those manufacturers. AGR was basically the Honda factory team when they were dominating. They got all the R&D and choice supply from Honda.

As for the two leagues coming together and using the DP01, the current Champ Car engine has no "manufacturer" even though Mazda is a series sponsor, they were very careful to say that they are not sponsoring the engine. I'm fairly certain the chassis and/or engine could be worked to run together. The IRL is now switching to paddle-shift on their cars like the DP01 has. Kind of interesting how the technology is coming together seperately.

 

This month's Racer has Dan Gurney's opinion of the situation today. 30 yrs. ago he wrote www.allamericanracers.com/cart_white-paper.html

Other good stories and photos here www.allamericanracers.com

 

I've always loved Dan. Didn't realise that he was THAT far ahead of the rest, he had a website 30 years ago???? LOL

 

+1. Excellent point.

I was thinking that I am the only person on here who thinks that Tony George actually saved open-wheel racing in the US?

 

It's only true because IRL has the Indy 500, which the sponsors require.

 

...Had to destroy the village to save it?

 

To save the villagers from the Bazillionaries.

 

I question the premise that he destroyed the series. It may be that what we have now in IRL is better than what would have happened in George's absence.

Given the way CART was going, I think Tony may have saved the sport from self-destructing. But then again, I am old enough to remember what happened to Can-Am, IMSA and Group C...

 

Yeah, how'd that work out for you?

 

Me too, so how was NASCARfying US open wheel "a good thing"?

 

I think we are seeing the death throws of open wheel racing in the USA. I will be pleasantly suprised if they get a CART / IRL union... where's the money going to come from. they will have to use the NASCAR model, to rebuild fans.... perhaps piggyback on Nascar events and with ALMS? or Rolex series?

Its not just Tony George who screwed up CART... I lay the blame at the ownership of CART... the teams.. they were Greedy and the big ones, look where they are all now... Nascar, cause the money is better... thats because the wrecked the series that got them where the are today.

CART was a rival to F-1 no doubt, especially after they went to narrow chassis and groved tyres... Bernie was really worried, the Americans are going to come and kill us! but Tony & company pulled the trigger and blew so many holes in the sport that it has finally died.

Both series lack promotion... I could not tell you who was either champion last year... Poor Sebastian Bordais.. he thinks he was really good in the USA, but I'm sure will just fall flat in F-1, its a shame.

I again would like to see it worked out, but I just cant see how they will have the money to make it work.

 

Work out for me? I had nothing to do with any of this, although I did own 100 shares of Cart stock. If anyone remembers, one of TG's goals was a series for homegrown talent. This months Racer magazine has Mr. Gurney's current opinion. He spreads the blame around pretty evenly, and I believe fairly.

Today's Autoweek has TG claiming to have offered IRL cars to Champ car teams last fall if they made a 2 year commitment. He also said he would incorporate as much of their 2008 schedule as possible. Champ co-owner Kalkhoven states he hasn't spoken to TG in 9 months, nor has TG spoken to his partner Gerry Forsythe. Could TG have been speaking to Champ race director Tony Cotman, who resigned last week, without Kalkhoven and Forsythe's knowledge? Most likely not and I'm going to assume that TG was not talking to a wall last fall and then issuing press releases. If these were public companies shareholders would be on the phone to the SEC.

I'm not taking sides anymore, haven't for a long time. But i still think the IRL car is a pig, and if that is construed as taking sides, so be it. But remember one thing about the Indy 500. The resurgence in the ticket sales and TV ratings coincided with the arrival of Danica Patrick and Marco Andretti.

Champ car's best weekends in 2008 will be when they are be paired with ALMS.

Unify with the Panoz car and boosted Honda power. Run a practical group of races from each series before sports car racing eats them both alive. But it's not my money and they haven't called.

 

I hit my button before I read your post and it's spot on. And yes, poor SB. The only competition he had was a few really good rookies and "I can drive where I want" Paul Tracy.

 

Any racing series--whether it's SCCA all the way up to F1--needs a WOW factor to be popular. Amateur racing, while not abundantly attended, gets it from its genuine nature and close competitiveness. NASCAR has the appeal of close racing, a thundering assault on the senses and the hero/villain story lines that emerge with different drivers. Formula 1 has always had that "You can't touch this" cache, big money, exotic locations etc. ALMS is coming on strong because I think it taps into a little of everything--good racing, exotic cars, great venues. CART/IRL? They have nothing. Cheap PR promos at cookie cutter ovals and street courses. Gimmicks that drip of desperation (Push-to-pass?!) Drivers who get a whiff of success tend to jump ship for greener pastures except the Brazilians. The damage is too far gone at this point because an entire generation has come and gone, and there are no names associated with either CART or IRL that matter any more. Marco Andretti possibly, but there is no way he can solely resurrect two dying racing series. And it's unlikely he'll stick around for the funeral, outside of an annual appearance at the Indy 500. The entertainment landscape saw enormous changes while this battle was being waged, and the result is the sporting world moved on without either. For the umpteenth time, guys today would rather watch poker on TV than CART or IRL. Does that say anything?

 

Anyone recall the CART/USAC split way back in 1979? There were a few doomsday reactionaries back then too. Open wheel racing survived that, it has survived the demise of Formula 5000, and it will survive the Champ Car/IRL split.

Champ car is going to vanish in a couple of years anyway and there won't be an open wheel schism in the US anymore.

 

The plot thickens. Tony Cotman who resigned Champ car 2 weeks ago just went to work as race director for the IRL. Maybe those talks with TG last fall, that his bosses can't seem to remember, were productive after all. Certainly gives TG an insiders look at the Champ operation.

Come to the dark side. Which side is it? I don't know.

 

Apples and oranges. You can't compare what happened back then for several reasons. Most importantly is, this has dragged on for a decade. Like I said, an entire generation of sports fans has migrated to other forms of entertainment, most of which weren't available and vying for market share in '79. CART survived because of the depth of names associated with racing back then. Foyt, Unser x2, Mears, Johncock, Rutherford, Sneva, Whittington, etc. Face it--if the IRL formula was interesting to people, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We're 10 years on now with this issue and the IRL struggles for recognition at every turn (not sure if the pun was intended). Winning the Indy 500 may be a life-changing moment for any driver, but it fails to carry with it the slightest resonance it did in years past. Disagree? Then run over to your neighbor's house real quick and ask him who Buddy Rice is. Go ahead--I'll wait. For open wheel racing to ever re-establish itself here, CART and IRL need to combine efforts and then some. They are both two very broken parts of a much bigger whole. IRL merely posits a better illusion.

--First, ditch those ****-wagons being used in the IRL. They're a joke. Racing cars are supposed to exude excitement, and open wheelers should be inherently sexy. They're not. Let Panoz continue to have a hand in the development of the chassis-the new CART cars are sharp, but they also need to invite developmental competition.
--Second, no more than 2 races at ovals under 1.5 miles in length. A racing car designed to travel at 220 mph should not be driving around at 150.
--Third, entice back big-name talent for big-time events. Remember the failed Hawaiian Super Prix? That would have been something.
--Fourth, more road circuits that make sense (Cleveland may be an airport, but it's unique and allows a lot of different racing) like Road America, Atlanta, and so on. Stop cramming races into city centers.
--Fifth, create a legitimate governance that represents the best interest of the sport, not one team or track.
--Sixth, ditch any lame PR stunts, whether it's push-to-pass, red tires, manufactured race strategies (tyre sets, pit stops, fuel) or Gene Simmons-anything.

Give me time, I'll think of more

 

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/42769/

Doesnt sound like you can fix this and it will take a couple of years to shake out. I'm going to the sports car races.