Good to see Grant bringing up the list of 'classics', alothough I note there are not many 2+2s on it... It's important that people realise that there were F-cars before the 360 and that it's probably fair to say that in their eras they had an even bigger impact on the motoring world than they do now, especially in our part of the world where supply has always been relatively limited. Think about what you could buy new when a Daytona landed in Australia (circa 1970) - say a Holden HT Kingswood or a XW Falcon and what the Daytona would have been in comparison. (not counting the GT-HO Phase 2 or 3 of course) Nowadays you can buy FPV/HSV type things or WRXs or whatever that are not dramatically slower or less capable than a 360 or 430, the 'everyday' cars are a lot more capable, not to mention affordable now than they were 35 years ago. Also, supply of F-Cars has been increased, so they are not quite as exclusive as before. You can also get P-Cars that are a lot more 'competitive' with F-Cars now, in 1970 they were still just 2.2 models. I would suggest that any chance that any non-owners, or even owners of newer cars, get to ride in one of the older cars that they should go for it and experience what it's like. Even our old 365GT has 300 odd HP and can get up and go in need as well as having bags of character and a dipsomanic thirst for fuel. Also remember that it's not just 0-60 times that are important. Once you know you are in a special car, you don't need to prove it to anyone else at the traffic lights!
I noted that FF mentioned music tastes! Good thing he knows what a flautist is now since the National Rally!
I also agree,the Boxer kicks mucho arse.Phil I know you will be biased towards the 365 but what are your honest thoughts/comparisons about the 512BB.Is it an improved version of the boxer or just a faster version?
old question, and I'll sit on the fence..... If I owned neither, I'd buy either, but I wouldn't swap my 512 for a 365... I wouldn't have an "i", but those that do enjoy them.
I actually have a lot of history with the Boxer's Phil. The very first Ferrari that I ever rode in was a 365BB when I was about 12 yrs old. It cemented the Ferrari marque in my mind as a life long obsession. I still remember the sound and the acceleration as it reached 100mph on an on ramp to the south eastern freeway. My father had an old fairmont at the time, so the performance comparison was just amazing. Then there was the looks of the 365 relative to what was around at the time. WOW in a big way! When I got my first car at 18, I had the number plate SD-512 because it was my goal to someday be able to buy a 512BB. By the time I could actually afford one I had moved on; but that's another story. I also remember the last 512BB sitting at Dixon's unsold for nearly 2 yrs. I think the price tag was $105,000? I remember looking at it in the showroom and trying to convince my Father that he should buy it. Unfortunately he couldn't afford to trade the 308 in for it. I drove a 512BB at Phillip Island courtesy of Mike Mier. As I recall the controls were very heavy; but the sound was just brilliant. I also spent some time in the passenger seat of Aircon's 512BB at various tracks. He never let me drive it unfortunately- he's like that you know! So I think I "get" what the Boxer is about; but I don't see that it could be classed as one of Ferraris better efforts. Does anyone else remember reading English road tests when the car was new, absolutely slamming it as a diabolical handling pig? I think the term lethal might have been used in relation to it's high centre of gravity and rear (rather than mid) engined weight bias? The Testarossa shares the same characteristic, though development, tyres and wider track calm it down a little. I did 18.000 miles in our TR, including a Targa and 2 Dutton rallies. Scared the crap out of me many times, and when it rained forget all about racing! I remember wishing that I could park it and catch a taxi many times in the Targa.....
Well, at least there are plenty of them here to choose from these days. I remember when they were really rare. There must be nearly 20 in the country today.
HTF did a Daytona make it into that list? Quite clearly, the people who voted had never driven one. Regards, Carl.
Sorry Phil for some reason I thought you owned a 365BB.I asume you have driven both,do they drive similar?Obviously the power of the 512 is greater but what about handling traits or is it personal opinions.I've searched the topic and have asked a friend of mine who has a 512 and he test drove a 365 and didn't like it and waited to a 512 came along and got that and found it to be a much better car
to fun this list. there s no Ferrari vintage in the list may be the knowlege of the man who made this article was short. 250 Gt passo corto 250 California list not exhaustive
I'm very happy with the three that I have, even if only one of them made the Forza list. Life is short, drive and have fun.
As a member of FORZA's panel which created this (and two other lists), let me point out two important things: 1) These were lists of the most SIGNIFICANT Ferraris of the period. Not the best Ferraris, not the Ferraris we most wish we owned, not the most expensive, but the ten cars which were significant in that period of Ferrari's history. For example, the 308 was a major new direction for Ferrari, was commercially successful far beyond previous cars, was the basis for the line to the present day, and so on. This was a significant design. 2) Christian, this was a list of modern cars only. The previous issue had a list of the ten most significant vintage Ferraris. The current issue has a list of the ten most significant racing cars (which was much, much more difficult to agree on). As an advance, the top two were tied, resolved with the F1-2000 over the 375 F1 of 1951. The panels used for these lists each had a fair amount of experience, and are mostly names Ferrari enthusiasts will recognize (if oriented somewhat to the U.S.). It was never expected that every reader would agree, but it was hoped that the stories might serve as a basis for discussion.
I thought the article was great fun and entertaing, clearly not meant to be definitive. The spread across the judges tally cards tells the real story, as many of their personal choices did not make the final list. Like many fine things in life, Ferraris are truly great because of that. Now, Cavallino would have published the 10 best Ferraris by chassis number....
Not obviously with the power... the 365 actually has a little more, but the 512 is torquier, and faster yes. Handling is similar but wider rear track of 512 stabilises, and aero chin on 512 keeps it on the ground at warp speed. Both can be pigs is even so much as tyre pressures are low. Both can be really nice when little things are sorted properly. NEVER take anything journos write as the truth. They are just writers and poor wannabe test drivers, they drive limited numbers of often poorly prepared cars. They drive one car which has a wheel alignment or other set up parameter wrong, and they slate all examples of the model as one. Magazine write ups are good for pictures, thats it. For me... single plate cable clutch and wet sump engine of 365BB is a handicap. But they are appreciably lighter... but still slower around a race track. The "i" have turn key ease of use, but they have no carbs!
Yes it is. The previous owner bought it from Ben Lexcens widow. I've had it now for 5years. 'twas an english import originally. Do you know anything else about the car? thanks Greg
Being the owner of both a 365 and a 512 boxer, let me put in my two bits. The 365 is a rarer car. Only 51 right hand drive cars in the world. Revs 1000 rpm higher than a 512, but the 512 has more torque and is a much more refined car. The 365 used to float in the front at high speeds , so Ferrari added a front spolier to the 512BB, to help it stay down at the front at high speeds. Ferrari also added larger rear wheels on the 512 as the wheels on the 365, 7 1/2 inches by 15 were the same all round. So imagine doing 195 MPH with rear tyres 7 1/2 wide. 512 came out with 9" at the rear. Lots of people put the 9", 512 wheels on the 365, but they never look good, because the 512BB body is wider in the rear. Personally, always loved the 512 better, Loved all the added vents and rear tail lights better. 365 has 6 tailights and 6 exhaust pipes. I think it's classic that on my 512BB/308GTS/F40, all the tail lights are the same. From a point of history, wasn't the Boxer's engine a detuned formula one engine? (somebody)? and the first rear engined 12 road car?
Thank you for your input and your comments. Being an owner of the top 3 cars, I'm a very happy person, obviously. However, I am curious about the 355 missing out on the list. It has been talked about (maybe wrongly), that if it wasn't for the 355, Ferrari the company, would have been in a financial crisis. If this is the case, then the 355 is a very important car in the history of Ferrari. Living Downunder, not sure if this is the case though.
I guess with these sorts of lists, if you ask 10 different people you'll get 11 different opinions...I suppose it's just as well. If we all just liked F40s, BBs, Daytonas or whatever, the conversations would get rather tedious after a while. It's certainly a good thing to develop discussion, as intended by the FORZA guys. FORZA is hard to get in Perth, I look out for it in the newsagents as we don't stock it in the shop. At least it seems to have a wider and more 'practical' coverage compared to Cavallino, but Cavallino is still nice and a good long term record of the cars. Don't know how 360C gets time to read all his car magazines - I keep falling behind...
the best way is to back order them from the FORZA website, thats what I did for all my issues (plus a few on eBay) - obviously it costs you an arm and 2 legs though.
I made a trip to the Newsagent today to pick up the current Forza. I haven't read the entire article yet; but it is interesting to note who voted for what in the table at the end. FWIW, nobody voted ANY of the "Super Ferraris" (288,F40,F50, ENZO) in first place. Andrew, I spend waaaaaaay too much time reading all those magazines- Just ask my wife!
Part of the problem is that I already get about 20 different magazines each month. Working in the shop where we get airfreight copies of all the decent UK magazines can be a wealth hazard sometimes, not to mention a great way of burning up time...unfortunately we don't get to sit and read books and magazines and watch DVDs all day, contary to popular opinion!
