355 - Torque Specs & Detailed Procedures Missing from Factory Workshop Manual | FerrariChat

355 Torque Specs & Detailed Procedures Missing from Factory Workshop Manual

Discussion in '348/355' started by C-speed, Aug 18, 2022.

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  1. C-speed

    C-speed Karting

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    #1 C-speed, Aug 18, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
    Hello,

    I've downloaded the 3-volume factory workshop manual and while it has somewhat detailed information and procedures for the major components, it doesn't list the torque specs for any of the nuts and bolts nor does it have detailed step-by-step procedures to disassemble/reassemble the components.

    For example, where do I find the following:
    - something as simple as how to replace the valve cover gasket and where exactly to put gasket sealer and torque specs for the nuts
    - or the tightening pattern to bolt down the head to the block and the torque specs
    - or torque specs for the cam caps and cam sprocket if you have to remove the cams to replace the gaskets and seals
    - or if you're doing a major service, the torque specs for all the pulleys and bearings
    - or if I want to remove the intake manifolds, there’s no step by step procedure on how to do it
    … etc etc

    I've attached a couple pages from my Honda Workshop manual as an example of what I'm looking for.

    I'm not sure if there's another manual out there that I need to download, if there is I haven't been able to find it. If it's something I have to buy, I'm more than happy to pay for it.

    Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ferrarium

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    #2 Ferrarium, Aug 18, 2022
    There’s no step by step procedure on how to do it - Yep that's true for most of the car. The assumption is you know how to figure it out as a trained mechanic. Remember these manuals were not done for DIY guys at home.
    Torque specs, sealer - use metric fastener guide for bolt size as the reference when in doubt. The assumption is a trained mechanic will know the car. It part of why its said don't let non Ferrari shops work on them. Remember these manuals were not done for DIY. The 348 and 328 manuals have a torque value section. Not every thing is listed but most of it. The rest is usually in the procedures somewhere.
    the tightening pattern to bolt down the head to the block and the torque specs - Odd, it's in the 348 manual I find it hard to believe it missing in the 355.
     
  3. C-speed

    C-speed Karting

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    #3 C-speed, Aug 18, 2022
    Gotcha, thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

    What's interesting is the Honda workshop manual isn't for DIY mechanics, it's the exact same manual the trained certified Honda technicians refer to at the Honda dealership. Go figure lol
     
  4. Ferrarium

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    #4 Ferrarium, Aug 18, 2022
    Perhaps explains the Ferrari dealer mechanic rates.

    Also Honda is japanese, Ferrari is Italian. Take that into account and the difference you note is then to be expected. Italians....

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  5. C-speed

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    #5 C-speed, Aug 18, 2022
    lol Yup, I'm starting to get it... welcome to the club o_O
     
  6. Ferrarium

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    #6 Ferrarium, Aug 18, 2022
  7. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #7 yelcab, Aug 20, 2022
    Half of the things you are asking for are in the WSM. You have to know where to find it. You are also expected to have a decent level of expertise as a technician. Finally, you are expected to not believe the many errors that the factory makes in the WSM.

    Experience counts.
     
  8. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #8 m.stojanovic, Aug 20, 2022
    I once had a look at Volume 1. I remember seeing a number of torque tables, including tightening sequence for the cylinder heads.
     
  9. PaulK

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    #9 PaulK, Aug 21, 2022
    Welcome to my world. I have an idea to fix this but it will take many years to develop.

    The workshop manual has three expectations:
    1) You have been working on Ferraris for a lifetime.
    2) You are an experienced mechanic.
    3) You know when to take the WSM seriously and when not to. For example some Ferrari WSMs list their torques in decanewtons and they really mean decanewtons (daN), and sometimes they list them in decanewtons and really mean newtowns. Why? This is Ferrari. It was whoever was available to translate. That is why they give you the thread dimensions.

    All the mechanics at the dealer know the values in their head. Previous models may have torque values carry over to a newer model and that is how Ferrari intended it.
    Right now I am making a spreadsheet of all the torque values for all the cars that I have info on. This way I can get a feel for the torques they are doing and compare them to the standardized torques. The additional benefit is that I have a spreadsheet that can be added to.
     
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  10. Ferrarium

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    #10 Ferrarium, Aug 21, 2022
    A lot of times the torque values align to the torque spec for the given bolt size with the exception of some specialty things like head studs excetera that have special procedures.

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  11. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

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    #11 flash32, Aug 21, 2022
    +1

    I use the standard chart as a sanity çheck for the WSM as well

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  12. C-speed

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    #12 C-speed, Aug 21, 2022
    I assume you guys are referring to a chart like this one? And how do you identify the grade? I don't recall seeing any marking on the bolts.
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  13. flash32

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    #13 flash32, Aug 21, 2022
    I tend to stay in the 8.8 range since most auto applications use that grade .. but like I said it more a sanity çheck for me and/or when no torque value exists and don't know grade ..no marks or numbers on bolts

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  14. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #14 m.stojanovic, Aug 21, 2022
    Practically every bolt has grade marking on its head. If not, then it is a very low grade bolt or bolt made in some backyard factory.

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  15. m.stojanovic

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    #15 m.stojanovic, Aug 21, 2022
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  16. taz355

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    #16 taz355, Aug 22, 2022
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    I think most of what you asked for as yelcab suggested is in there just in diff spots
    Here is part of cylinder head torque
    Maybe you did not get full manual
     
  17. C-speed

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    #17 C-speed, Aug 23, 2022

    Thanks everyone for all the help! I finally sat down and read through the entire manual and taz355 is right... for the most part, most of the stuff is buried in the manual, you just have to search for it.

    As for the torque specs, whoever created the manual didn't always list them next to the associated steps or diagrams but they listed the specs for the important bolts (not all) in a chart towards the end of each section.

    It's unfortunate that the PDF itself isn't searchable.
     
  18. yelcab

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    #18 yelcab, Aug 24, 2022
    Having the torque specs summarized in a table actually is more preferred. You can print a few pages and have all the torque specs at your fingertips instead of searching all over the place for them.
     
  19. C-speed

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    #19 C-speed, Aug 24, 2022
    Not in my opinion. Like the example pages I posted above from the Honda manual, all the info you need to assemble the bottom end is on one single page. You know where the nut/bolt goes, what size the nut/bolt is, what to torque it to and any special instructions. It can't get any easier than that :)
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  20. Ferrarium

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    #20 Ferrarium, Aug 24, 2022
    Ferrari & Honda, Apples and oranges in that regard. Never designed the car with documentation for people to work on them. So it is what it is. Honda manuals do not exist for Ferraris, so torque tables it is. As far as how to assemble, experience counts I suppose. personally I would not do a bottom end I'd have an experienced shop do it. Gaps clearances etc all need to be accounted for. Failure rate or knocking rods is all to common with built engines done with out the required precision. Cant take a hand file to bearings etc...

    Good news is at least you can get torque specs from bolt specs. Good luck on your journey and enjoy! :)
     
  21. C-speed

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    #21 C-speed, Aug 24, 2022
    Ya, that's what I've come to find out lol. I have extensive experience building engines. I just wanted to ensure I had all of the documentation that I can get my hands on so that when I do dive into something, I know ahead of time what reference material I have available.

    This forum has a ton of info and everyone has been extremely helpful, too.

    Thanks!
     

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