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Towbin Motorcars in Las Vegas....

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by MurcieMurcie, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. MurcieMurcie

    MurcieMurcie F1 Rookie

    Jan 31, 2004
    3,002
    DO NOT DEAL WITH THESE GYS!!! THEY ARE THE BIGGEST GROUP OF JERK OFFS AND WILL WASTE YOUR TIME AND THINK NOTHING OF IT:mad::mad::mad:


    They have a Gallardo and told my buddy they wants $225k for it and that was the going market price:rolleyes: He called me to ask me and I told him it was horse$h!+ and to ask them how many Gallardos have actually sold for $225k. They then told him that some Gallardos have sold for as much as $100k over sticker and the going rate is about $75k over sticker and their car was a bargain at $50k over...Next time I am in Vegas am thinking abotu paying a special visit to them just to kick them all in the nads.
     
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  3. markr

    markr Karting

    Sep 15, 2003
    196
    N. Virginia
    Oh I cannot agree more. When I lived in Vegas these fools were all over the television and radio. If I am not mistaken they had a guy working for them called the "Chopper" cause he chopped prices, yea whatever. They had some kind of TV infomercial where he would advertise used cars for sale. He would stand up and all the employees of the dealership (who all looked like they were on the last episode of COPS) would drive the cars by the camera so the customers could view them.

    Anyway this dude the "Chopper" and his cronies actually put out rap album. That should tell you enought right there.

    I will see if I can find the link for it.
     
  4. markr

    markr Karting

    Sep 15, 2003
    196
    N. Virginia
    Sorry for the long post, but here is a letter validating their character . . .


    The following is a self explanatory letter about the shady practices of Towbin Dodge. We sent it to the Nevada Department Of Consumer Protection, who said they could do nothing.

    April 22, 1999

    Consumer Affairs Division
    Dept. of Professional Regulation
    1850 E. Sahara Ave.
    Las Vegas, NV 89104


    Dear friends;

    I wish to advise you of my experience attempting to purchase a car at the Towbin Dodge outlet in Henderson that was, at best, a very bad way to do business and possibly a series of unfair and deceptive trade practices.

    On Monday, March 29th, I accompanied my daughter to Towbin's “chop sale” to find her an inexpensive first car. We came to agreement with the sales staff on a price of $3,000
    for a Ford escort. The sticker on the windshield stated 91,000 miles. We began the negotiations with this mileage in mind.

    Shortly thereafter we discovered that the sticker was incorrect and the odometer really read 109,100 miles. We pointed this out to the salesman.

    We concluded a deal with salesman Bill Ross. The agreement was that we would pay $1,500 cash down and finance approximately $2,100 ($1,500 balance plus approximately $500-$600 in costs) for one year at an interest rate of approximately 10-11%. We agreed to this.

    We then sat with the finance staff person, Craig Alexander, who prepared the disclosure statement. When I reviewed the statement it appeared that we were financing a sum in
    excess of $2,500. I examined the document and found a $500 charge for “PROTEX” which we were not informed of.

    Mr. Alexander explained that this was a fee to be paid to the finance company to persuade them to accept assignment of such a small loan. I responded that we had not agreed to pay a commission equal to 25% of the principal .

    Mr. Alexander insisted that it must be paid. We did not accept his insistance. He persisted and made a serious attempt to
    convince us that the fee was mandatory. He went so far as to say that he would take it off the form if we wished, but it would not reduce the amount we would have to pay. We disagreed and suggested that he confer with his supervisor about this. He then left the room for a short while. When he returned, he advised us that this fee was not necessary. He prepared a new document reflecting that we were financing the sum of $2,044 for one
    year at 10.5%. We signed. He withdrew $1,500 for the downpayment from my bank account using my ATM card. The funds were, in fact, removed from my account.

    However, before we met with Mr. Alexander, my daughter had pointed out to Mr. Ross that the “check engine” light had lit up during the car's operation. Mr. Ross had agreed that whatever had caused it would be fixed and a”due bill” had been prepared. Mr. Ross had instructed her to make an appointment with the service department to have the work done.

    We drove away. Within two minutes we noticed two other problems with the car: the rear lights did not all work and there was a very audible clunking sound emanating from the engine. My daughter returned immediately and spoke with Mr. Ross, who in turn consulted with Don Heckathorn, a sales manager. Mr. Heckathorn joined the conversation and assured my daughter that these two problems would also be “taken care of”. In herpresence, he added these two matters to the already prepared due bill. She understood clearly from his response that the two problems would be fixed. Accordingly, the three
    problems listed on the due bill were as follows:

    1. the “check engine” light intermittantly lit up,

    2. the lights in the rear of the car did not all work, and

    3. a clunking sound emanated from the side of the engine.

    Shortly thereafter, I called and made an appointment with the service department. A short time before the date of the service appointment, however, Mr. Alexander called me and informed me that he was “ having a problem finding a finance company “ to accept assignment of the note. He advised me that in order for us to maintain the transaction, it was necessary to execute a new credit agreement to supercede the first agreement and if
    we did not do this, the deal was cancelled. I objected, insisting that an agreement was an agreement. He informed me that it was Towbin's right to rescind the contract if it could
    not assign the note. I was completely surprised. There had been no disclosure of this. He stated that the new agreement had to be at 18% interest. I didn't like it but I agreed under
    protest.

    Mr. Alexander said that he would have the new agreement waiting for me at the service desk so that I could sign it when I brought the car in for service.

    On Monday, April 5th, I brought the car in for service and was told by Fidel Navarro that the work indicated on the due bill would be carried out. I asked Mr. Navarro if Mr. Alexander had given him a new agreement for me to sign. He stated that he knew nothing about that. However, during that day while the car was being serviced, Mr. Ross called me and brought the new agreement to my office to be signed. I signed it. My daughter was to sign it when she picked up the car in the afternoon.

    Later, when my daughter went to pick up the car, she was told by Mr. Navarro that the first two problems had been fixed but that the third problem had not been fixed upon the instructions of the sales department. He pointed out to her that the due bill stated that the third problem was only to be “diagnosed”, not fixed. Needless to say she was surprised and shocked to hear this and she went to speak with Mr. Heckathorn. He told her that he had to speak with others but that it was 99% certain that the third problem would also be fixed. He told her to be patient and to call him back in a few days.. She drove her car home without signing the new agreement.

    The next day, Tuesday, April 6th, I called Mr. Heckathorn. He advised me that a decision had been made. Towbin Dodge was not going to fix the clunking sound because it would cost in excess of $200 to fix. He reiterated that the due bill had stated “diagnose”, not “fix”, and denied that he had told my daughter that it would be fixed. He informed me that if I did not accept this, I could return the car. I replied that I would call him back after I consulted my lawyer.

    The next day, Wednesday, April 7th, a young man who identified himself as J.B. called my daughter and instructed her to return the car to the dealership that evening. My daughter, clearly upset because we had not yet decided what we wished to do, gave me the phone.

    After a brief conversation, I advised J.B. that I would return the car and I wanted the return of my down payment at the same time so that we could purchase another car immediately. He responded in a most discourteous way, stating that ”this isn't the way it works”, and that he was entitled to 15 days in which to return our downpayment.

    He is a rather rude young man and started his last sentence with “look, buddy...”. I did not agree to give him the car without a concurrent return of the downpayment. He said that he
    would send out a repossessor to take the car thiat evening. I then went out for dinner and when I returned, there was a message from him to the effect that if we had paid by credit
    card, he would be able to credit our account immediately. I called him back to explore this but he was not present. I left him a message. He did not call back.

    Later that evening, I composed and faxed a letter addressed to Carolyn and Dan Towbin, whom I understood to be the owners of the dealership, advising them of this situation and requesting that someone with authority call me in order to resolve the matter. In my letter, I expressed my view that we already had a deal, the original one that we signed in Towbin was bound by Mr. Heckathorn's verbal promise to my daughter, made in Mr. Ross' presence, to fix the car.

    I also stated that we were willing to resolve the matter in either of two ways: Towbin will fix the car and we will sign and be bound by the new financing agreement, or we will return the car and they will return my daughter's money at the same time.

    The next day, a woman who identified herself as an assistant to Josh Towbin, whose name I cannot remember, called me. She did not relate to any of my concerns, she simply tried to persuade me to return the car and allow Towbin 15 days in which to return our down payment. Again I refused, pointing out that Towbin no longer enjoyed our trust, and moreover, we needed the money to purchase a different car. We hung up with the matter unresolved. Later, I cannot remember how much later, Mr. Heckathorn called me and stated that since I had paid with an ATM card, Towbin could use the same method to return the down payment. We agreed that I would return the car and he would credit my account, using my ATM card, at the same time so that we would have immediate access to the money.

    We brought him the car on Friday, April 9th. He passed my ATM card through the terminal and gave me a receipt showing a credit of $1,500.

    The next day my daughter and I went to purchase another car and were embarassed to find, when we attempted to place a down payment, that the funds had not been transferred into our account. Thinking that perhaps it was a bookeeping delay because of the weekend, I checked our account on Monday evening, the 12th, and the funds had still not appeared. I called Mr. Heckathorn. He said he would “look into it”. The funds were
    transferred on the evening of Tuesday, April 13th.

    That is the story. I believe the deceptive acts that took place within our transaction were as follows:

    A misstated odometer reading; An undisclosed $500 fee, which Towbin insisted must be paid; A concluded and signed installment contract which was subsequently recinded without prior disclosure of Towbin's right to recind; verbal promise to fix the car which was deliberately misstated in writing and not
    carried out; A threat of repossession in order to force us to do something we were not required to do; and Agreeing to return our down payment and thereafter either deliberately or negligently delaying its return.

    I hope that you can take some action against this used car dealer as a result of our experience. Please be aware that of the people we told about this, a number stated that they had heard that Towbin had a bad reputation.

    If you wish any further information or if we can be helpful to you, please feel free to call me. My daughter and I are willing to assist in any way possible.

    Just as an aside, I bought another used car from Towbin one month earlier. Mr. Heckathorn tried to play the same trick on me: he verbally agreed to fix the air conditioning which did not work and he prepared a due bill. I had the presence of mind to
    look it over before we concluded and I called to his attention that he had written “diagnose” instead of “fix”. He was a little sheepish when I interlineated the word “fix”.
    This document may still be in the file. You might find it amusing. They fixed the air conditioning.

    Very truly yours,

    Nachman Rosenberg

    cc: Towbin Dodge, Henderson.
    Las Vegas Better Business Bureau
     
  5. markr

    markr Karting

    Sep 15, 2003
    196
    N. Virginia
  6. fatal

    fatal Rookie

    Mar 31, 2004
    30
    Just a little info. "chopper" is...... Josh Towbin. This type of behavior is very common in Vegas. It is also the reason I am leaving this town. Word to the wise, as a rule stay away from vegas dealers.
     
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  8. docapl

    docapl Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 26, 2002
    267
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Anthony
    I believe F of OC has a 200 mile Gallardo with e-gear for slighlty under MSRP.
     
  9. Big Mac Attack

    Dec 25, 2003
    5
    They Blow!!!!!!!!!!!

    They screwed up my H-1 Hummer.

    They couldnt fix my Bentley Azure.<----traded it for a Lambo GTR :)

    They messed up the sound system in my Bentley Arnage beyond belief and helped themselfs to the CD's.

    Now I just ship my cars to LA for service. Thankfully after going back for bad service 5 or 6 times I woke up one day and started shipping my cars. I never have taken any of my Lambo's there. There service is typical of Vegas in general.
     
  10. a8guy

    a8guy Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    469
    yeah- i have an office on sahara/buffalo about 2 miles from those guys
    they have some sweet cars in stock- but like someone previously said they are pretty short in both the knowledge and the class department.

    Anyone notice they have 2 idenitacal gallardos- both blue/cream e-gear - wierd

    I aksed how much and was told about 220k - which they claimed was MSRP-
    I told the dealer " I wish you weren't a liar" he is like "sir I am telling you the truth"

    I responded with - " I just wish you weren't a liar" -anyone watch SNL?

    I'm guessing their pricing will become more reasonable - as there inventory has had zero turnover in the past month

    Any of you Las Vegans ever go to Gaudin JAG/Aston? good/ bad?
     
  11. TTHOMPSON

    TTHOMPSON Rookie

    Apr 17, 2004
    1
    LAS VEGAS
    Full Name:
    TROY THOMPSON

    First and formost I would like to apologize for any misunderstanding regarding our pricing polices. We like to be fair and reasonable. We price our cars at fair market value. At the time, prices were set for the two Gallardos acording to what we felt the market would demand. Prices for these cars have since been lowered as demand has subsided. We have since sold one of these cars off of Ebay (not exactly a high profit outlet). We pride our selves on the knowledge, expertise, and customer service our staff provides. We believe in full disclosure and quality service. Our staff is well trained in the new and preowned cars we sell. We have thousands of repeat and happy customers. Our customer service indexes are well above industry standards. We have no intentions of wasting any one's time and explore all avenues in order to pursue a sale. We spend good money thouroughy reconditioning our preowed cars including brakes, tires, and any other incidentals needed. Our staff goes to great pains making sure every car we sell has been saftey checked with no accident history.

    In regards to our inventory turnover. We are number 6 in the nation in New Car Bentley sales. Contrary to what has been posted about us in this forum the majority of our customers have expressed great satisfaction in our pricing as well as ease and receptability when it comes to negotiating a deal. We have always had a policy of entertaing any fair and reasonable offer on any of our cars. To put it simply if you do not like the price and we feel your offer is lower than what we can reasonably expect to get on the open market don't buy the car.

    I invite anybody in the Las Vegas area to stop by anytime and I will be happy to demonstrate any one of our fine cars. I am sorry that some people may have had a bad experience at our store and would like the opportunity to prove them wrong.

    Sincerly,

    Troy Thompson
    Sales Manager
    Towbin Motorcars
     
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  13. MurcieMurcie

    MurcieMurcie F1 Rookie

    Jan 31, 2004
    3,002
    Gallardos were never selling for $100k over, and 2 weeks ago $50k over was still ridiculous. I personally know of 8 people with Gallardos and no one ever paid over msrp. I see several for $10k+ but when it comes down to moving the unit msrp is usually right on the money...And to be totally open a few people paid under msrp by $2000...I was going to start a thread on "market value" of certain Lambos. I think the dealers are making enough on a $300k car so why gouge the price to the few loyal Lamborghini customers. I mean think about it, seriously, every Lambo owner goes through several cars. I mean most people keep buying the brand so is'nt it wrong to jack up a high dollar vehicle like this?

    I got off topic, long story short Towbin could have sold a vehicle and proven itself to be a reputable dealer. Just the fact that the car was priced $50k over msrp this time of year tells me one of a few things: that Towbin is not a reputable dealer and I should let every Lambo owner I know to avoid them no matter what. That Towbin sales people have zero knowledge about the market for their product and are clueless about their profession. That the salesman was hoping he had an uneducated, clueless, first time Lambo buyer and desperately tried to take advantage of the situation. I could go on and on about this but facts are facts. Gallardos NEVER sold for $100k over msrp, I never even heard of one selling for $50k over so please let me know if I am uninformed. And this time of year even thinking about quoting a potential customer $50k over msrp is obsurd. I will personally never even consider dealing with Towbin just on the fact that a price like that was even mentioned...I would rather be told "sorry but the Gallardo is our floor display and unavailable" at least then I could respect your dealership a little bit.

    I am getting off the soap box now:D:D

    ps-a CA dealer was very happy that your salesman was such a screwball, he sold a gallardo at msrp and all it took was a 15 minute cold phone call:rolleyes:
     
  14. wings

    wings Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
    670
    Stay away from Towbin!!!
     
  15. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru F1 Rookie
    Sponsor

    Dec 14, 2003
    3,553
    Fl
    Full Name:
    John Temerian
    Wow sounds like you have alot of nice cars!
    What color Lambo GTR?
     
  16. Big Mac Attack

    Dec 25, 2003
    5
    One blue and one yellow. I'll have a friend post pics for me later. I dont know how to.
     
  17. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

    Nov 11, 2003
    12,803
    San Clemente
    Full Name:
    Anthony Tonokaboni
    I like the picture with the Screwballs, especially the Jimmy Hendrix looking guy.
     
  18. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    Chopper was in court a few months ago for supposedly roughing up a guy who was driving around in his truck with signs on them with negative remarks about his purchase, they cornered the guy and Chopper and about 4 other guys roughed him up and told him to get the "Fck" away from his dealership.

    Chopper sounds like a real piece of work.
     
  19. Stackhouse

    Stackhouse F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 14, 2004
    4,621
    IN YOUR TRUNK
    Full Name:
    CT.. AKA Pimp Daddy
    Towbin?
    So hows their Bently service??

    Gonna be in Vegas with some friends soon and will be needing a 1,000 mile on a Continental GT (friend's car) Towbin wanted it for about 3 days to do the work (Just leave the car with us...). I'm calling left nut! From the content of this thread I would think these guys are looking forward to some Pimpin in the GT over the weekend! Any imput?

    PD
     
  20. ForzaMe

    ForzaMe Rookie

    Mar 8, 2004
    39
  21. F40Lover

    F40Lover Karting

    Mar 28, 2004
    203
    Looks like to me that the staff of this place is al the actors who could not make it in show business and just changed the "Stage" they appear on!!
     
  22. triXXXter

    triXXXter Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2003
    652
    Ft. Worth TX
    Full Name:
    Steven G. Ogden
    As far as pricing on vehicles, that is not a problem with me. People don't have to buy that car. People can "shop around" for a Gallardo. Saying it is a good deal, well that is questionable. But your dealership has a very long history of very poor business practices. I live and Ft. Worth TX and WOULD NEVER DEAL WITH YOUR DEALERSHIP! And that was way before this thread was ever posted and isn't only because of the community of people. News, Internet and word of mouth have killed any possible business from me.

    Your dealership makes proving honesty for other dealerships harder. People get burned from you and don't trust others. I'm sure in a few years when I begin car sales seriously; your business will not be much competition for me.
    Quality over quanity.

    P.S. I don't know how your dealership got picked for the "Faking It" show, but that was funny. I give you that.
     
  23. WJHMH

    WJHMH Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2001
    22,160
    Panther City, Texas
    Full Name:
    Will
  24. TheBigEasy

    TheBigEasy F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Jun 21, 2005
    13,958
    California
    Full Name:
    Ethan Hunt
    Haha, ya I was just going to post this. The car guy thinks he's a rapper or something. I guess their marketing is if you're on welfare and win the lottery, go buy a car from them. Don't forget your 20lbs worth of chunky jewelry around your neck and on your teeth to go with it.
     
  25. sirbob

    sirbob Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2004
    343
    South Orange County
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I just saw this show a couple of nights ago...my first thought was ...OH MY GOD DOES THE DEALERSHIP OWNER KNOW THAT THEY ARE SHOWING THE NAME IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE SHOW?

    After watching for a few minutes I realized they sure do.... boy am I glad they did show it - now I know to never go there.

    What a bunch of idiots... ya, just the place I want to go buy a car.
     
  26. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jul 20, 2005
    6,494
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Walter
    I haven't seen the show, but has anyone dealt with them since the fiasco a year or so ago? It'd be interesting to see how things really have changed, if at all.
     

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