Toyota decision made...... | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Toyota decision made......

Discussion in 'F1' started by Wolfgang5150, Nov 3, 2009.

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  1. ACross32

    ACross32 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2007
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    Andrew
    Now that Max is out of the equation, the Cosworth requirement is likely no longer in place.
     
  2. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Let's bear in mind that it's not official that Toyota is gone...

    I would be slightly surprised if they do bail.
     
  3. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie

    May 6, 2007
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    Brawn didn't get Honda's cut from 2008. I'm pretty sure Sauber will be considered a new team.

    What will be curious is how Toyota's breach of contract will be handled.

    How cheap is cheap? The impression we have so far is that the new teams were coerced into using Cosworth. I imagine Max won't bother since he's pretty much done and/or simply won't have the guts to pull something like that on such an established team.
     
  4. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Only surprise is that it took them so long to pull the plug.
     
  5. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    You need a new moniker. Something like Ferrari.SauberF1Team.

    As it should be. :)
     
  6. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
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    Dec 11, 2006
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    I hadn't really thought it through, but now that you say it, that makes perfect sense.

    That said, I really do hope Kobayashi gets a ride for next year. He really impressed me in his two starts. Fast and scrappy from the get-go. We need more of that in F1 these days.
     
  7. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Andreas,

    I read an article on Autosport (sadly it looks like it will happen)...

    BUT...

    I don't think this means Sauber now gets a pass into the 2010 season. After all, the only reason Sauber is in a bind is because BMW refused to sign the docs for 2010, and so lost their spot. Toyota can announce their withdrawal, but "Toyota F1" still has a lot, that is no more or less valuable than USF1's slot.

    There is talk about a management buyout just like at Brawn... and in this case, Toyotas slot would not be available to Sauber.

    And if Toyota is actually bailing out next year, their slot and entire operation would be verrrry valuable to some folks... perhaps Qadbak (if they are not fully committed to Sauber/BMW) or perhaps a certain ProDrive, or even Lola (who were jilted last time around).

    Honda let it go very cheap, and I am sure there would be a lot of interested parties at HondaF1 prices.

    I am not sure this helps Sauber very much at all, and at best it just gives them another seller to negotiate with.
     
  8. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Yeah...I should, but we'll see what the official team name will be and even then I have to PM Rob and ask to change it. ;)
     
  9. Dipsomaniac

    Dipsomaniac F1 Veteran

    Mar 23, 2006
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    Derek K
    TOKYO, Nov 4 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor <7203.T> will announce on Wednesday a plan to pull out of Formula One racing after this year, Japan's Mainichi newspaper reported on Wednesday.
    The reported withdrawal comes as the auto industry starts to stabilise after a sales crunch in the wake of the financial crisis.
    If confirmed, Toyota's pullout would be another major blow for Formula One after Japan's number two carmaker Honda quit the series last December to cut costs.
    It would also continue the drain of Japanese companies from motor sport, which has seen Subaru and Suzuki withdraw from the world rallying championship and bike maker Kawasaki scrap its MotoGP team in the grip of a severe market downturn.
    Japanese tyremaker Bridgestone announced earlier this week they would not renew their tyre supply contract with Formula One after the 2010 season.
    Toyota's Fuji International Speedway circuit in July gave up the hosting rights for the Japanese Grand Prix in 2010 and beyond to reduce costs amid the global economic downturn.
    The pull-out of Japanese companies from F1 began with Honda-backed Super Aguri, who left for financial reasons early last year.
    Toyota are the only remaining Japanese team in F1, but have no drivers signed for next season and were dropped as Williams' engine partner for 2010.
    HUGE BUDGET
    The world's biggest carmaker have failed to win a race since entering Formula One in 2002 despite an estimated annual budget of around $300 million.
    Their departure from the sport would leave just three manufacturers -- Ferrari (FIAT), Mercedes and Renault. It would also open the door for BMW-Sauber's new Swiss owners to take their place as the 13th team on the grid.
    Toyota signed the concorde agreement earlier this year committing themselves to F1 until at least 2012, so a pullout could also have legal ramifications.
    The Yomiuri newspaper said Toyota has raised its global production plan for the year to March 2010 by 13 percent to about 7 million vehicles from 6.2 million units forecast in February.
    Toyota has forecast an operating loss of 750 billion yen ($8.3 billion) on revenues of 16 trillion yen. It is scheduled to report second-quarter results on Thursday. ($1=90.36 Yen)
     
  10. Earthboundmisfit

    Earthboundmisfit Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2009
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    Back how? Visiting in Abu Dhabi? As Martin Brundle pointed out, he was sans team shirt. He isn't back.
     
  11. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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  12. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I hear what you're saying but don't forget that in F1 aside from the rules by the FIA there is also the entertainment/money factor run by Bernie.

    They just couldn't physically add another team to the existing pit garages, so they used the FIA regulations to keep Sauber out. With one team less, I'm sure the "powers that be" will bend over backwards to bring Sauber in now.

    After all is said and done, a Sauber team on the 2010 is a LOT more interesting than any of the newbie teams and Bernie knows that.
     
  13. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

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    I just knew Kimi should have jumped at their offer. The signing bonus would have helped at Christmas.
     
  14. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    i agree. This was probably their most consistent season, and they had a 1-2 chances of winning races.
     
  15. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    Andreas,

    When are you changing your Avatar to Fernando's Helmet.

    Best,
    Tony
     
  16. Alex1015

    Alex1015 Formula Junior

    Sep 1, 2005
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    This has been a long time coming and is not surprising. The public had foreshadowing from Toyota's cancellation of Fuji. If they couldn't justify spending $8 million a year for the race how could they justify spending three orders of magnitude more for a team with limited results?

    It's a shame of course, but I'm sure Sauber will step in, although some of their sponsors have already moved on.

    On Toyota's future, I think they'll have an exit strategy planned that is a more elegant departure than Honda's...
     
  17. Alex1015

    Alex1015 Formula Junior

    Sep 1, 2005
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    USA
    There are two different issues here. One is the right to Toyota's grid slot and the other is Toyota's factory itself. The factory in Cologne, Germany will not likely be sold as all of Toyota's motorsport activity (formerly Toyota Team Europe) is based out of the area.

    On the other hand, Toyota's spot in the championship is not theirs to 'sell'. That right falls to the FIA and therefore the spot is defaulted to Sauber as they were recognized as the 14th after the second round of selections, initiated by BMW's departure.
     
  18. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Ron owns 15% of McLarenF1. He was never "gone" - he only handed over the day-to-day activities to Whitmarsh to focus on the road car division. He wasn't banned in the way Flavio was banned. Ron had taken a largely figurehead role years ago as he had already made Whitmarsh responsible for the day-to-day operation of the team quite a while ago.

    What he did do was take a much less visible role in the organization, ostensibly to placate Mosley.

    It's no surprise that at the first race that Mosley is done, Ron is back.

    That's what I mean by him being back - because he is, visibly so.
     
  19. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I agree that Sauber should be there and almost certainly will be there.

    But I don't think Toyota quitting F1 grants that to Sauber... because Toyota isn't going to just pull out and disband and send everyone home. They will either do what Jaguar did and will sell the whole operation to someone else (like ProDrive). Or they will let the management do a buy-out as is being reported in the press (like Honda did with Brawn).

    But either way, their slot on the grid will still be their slot. Sauber isn't going to get the Toyota slot, and IMO Toyota pulling out does nothing towards getting Sauber a grid spot because it's a tangible operation that is worth a lot as an ongoing concern.
     
  20. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    This is not true.

    Toyota already has a committed entry to the 2010 F1 championship. If the corporation is sold to someone else - even if it is renamed - then the FIA has no legal say in the matter. BMW got themselves into a tight spot because they declined to official enter the 2010 F1 championship, and since the slots filled up behind them, they lost out.

    But Toyota is already in, just like Honda was when they sold to Brawn, or just like when Minardi became Red Bull...they bought the whole operation, renamed it - and that's that.

    The FIA can't let Sauber in because they are contractually obligated to give those spots to USF1, Manor, Campos, Lotus, etc. They also have similar contracts with Ferrari, Brawn, Toyota and the others. Just like they can't arbitrarily say no to USF1, they also can't arbitrarily say no to ToyotaF1. If Toyota kills the corporation and pays damages to the FIA, they can get out of it - but that will never happen - the spot is worth $$$, so it will go to whomever takes over the ToyotaF1 team, not to the FIA.
     
  21. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    Why does anyone participate in F1 ? Does Force India, Red Bull build cars or the now WC Brawn build cars ?

    IIRC, McLaren F1 was the first street car they ever build, but they have been in F1 way before the creation of that car. Also, you do realize that Toyota has a lot more cars in their sales lineup over in Europe or in Asia, right ? Formula One is a lot more popular world wide than here in the US, unfortunately for us who are living here in the US.
     
  22. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Top and bottom of it, In 2008 Toyota lost $4.74bn, its first operating loss since 1937. This year the company is predicting a loss of $8.3bn.

    Plus the fact they did not get the best of results in F1.

    Sad but thats the facts.
     
  23. cmack

    cmack Karting

    Jan 8, 2009
    191
    Germany


    Okay, these are the facts but it is still a sad decision. I think that many manufacturers - with the exception of Ferrari - are still underestimating the marketing effects and influence of F1.

    After leaving F1 I think it will be even harder for them to sell the 500 LF-A's, even if we put the price aside for a moment. No F1, no heritage - we will see how it works out.
     
  24. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    Pay how many hundreds of millions to shift a few cars?
    I haven't done the math but I don't think its worth it.
     
  25. Feffman

    Feffman Formula Junior
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    I wonder if Toyota will supply engines to anyone on the F1 grid? There's pretty good relationship between Lotus and Toyota now as the Elsie, Exige and new Evora are all Toyota powered. Just speculating!

    Feff
     

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