Once they had the car up on the rack they called me and had me come over and visually inspect the crack (which I did). I did not drive the car for any great distance (since it was billowing smoke as mentioned eariler). Maybe 10 miles interstate (no shifting - around 2krpm) and about 1 mile back roads (3-4 stop and goes).
And I am sure the 'backfire' was not related to the smoke, as when I looked back upon hearing the noise (not even sure it was from my car) the trail of smoke was as far back as I could see, indicating it had already been leaking on the manifold for a while.
Rob, if you are going to tig weld it and chance it rather than toss $10k to $20k at a rebuilt (or better) tranny, I'd suggest at the very least changing tranny fluid over to the special Red Line fluid that they have for problem gearboxes (as a proactive, potentially preventative measure). That's not the normal Red Line gearbox oil. Tig weld it, swap out the fluid (examine for metal). Put her in 5th gear and rotate by hand via the wheels while she's on the rack...if no noise...no hesitations, no roughness...then perhaps try a slow speed drive around the parking lot. Proceed from there if all of the above signals OK. Otherwise, go for the upgraded tranny box! EDIT: After reading JP Sarti's comments below...my above seems out of line.
Their will be no metal in the trans yet, the welds crack on the diff and the diff spreads apart putting pressure on the case cracking it, the new diff is a one piece unit not welded so it doesn't split.
Aye-yi-yiiiii... I did not know that. Ouch. So it's now a time bomb? He could weld the outer cover/case and drive, but the differential keeps spreading out internally in the meantime??
Yes, don't think a cracked diff would last long, a few punches on the accelerator would probably cause it to totally split.
It seems the shop should be able to pull the trans drain plugs and inspect the diff, maybe use a boroscope if needed to see if its cracked, anyone know if you can view the diff this way?
This job can be done with the engine still in the car belive it or not. I have done it. The diff, bearings, sidecover and shimes will run about 5k. Trans fluid and a full flush will add another 300 and change. This failure does not sound as bad as some of them, which completey destroy the side cover, sending bits and peices through the trans. You may be very luck. More then likely it has split, but not come completely apart and is just putting enough pressure to crack the side cover. DO NOT DRIVE< JB WELD< TIG WELD anything. Fix the problem, WITHOUT REMOVING THE ENGINE, and you will be able to get out of there for just under 10k. Make sure you tell them it can be done IN THE CAR!
Sounds like you should be shipping your car to Tbakowsy!!!! We all fear that this may happen to our cars one day. Spending 40% of the value of a car to fix a diff seems awefully absurd. Has anyone looked into adapting other car manufacturer diffs to the testarossa? Can the original diff be rebuilt/strenghtened? Out of curiosity, what would this repair cost for a DIY kind of guy? Couldn't he take the trans/diff out himself, and get the case welded. Insert new/updated diff, and reinstall? I am sure its a huge PITA, but if the only other option is a 20,000$ repair....eek... I know thats its ABSOLUTE blaspheme to say this, and I am flagellating myself as I say it ( ), but can one adapt a Chevy diff? Its a 300$ part, goot for 600 HP and continuous burn outs... Alright, you may now shoot me...
That's by design. At the bottom of page 14 in Prancing Horse #159, Ferrari makes it clear that the fewer inexpensive Ferrari's left on the road, the better...that they want large-Dollar owners in large Dollar Ferrari's only (preferably new, though rebuilding older examples for a few special owners seems to be on the table as well). My own opinion is that Ferrari's strategy above will only work so far for so long...and then the bottom end of the Ferrari line (i.e. every Ferrari that can be purchased for less than $200,000) will start experiencing the Cuba effect...where the cars are fixed by hand, down to making personal molds for parts, and OEM parts go the way of the Do-Do bird as far as those owners are concerned. Pininfarina/Bertone on the outside. Ferrari badges. Hand-made or aftermarket parts (engines, trannies, electrics/electronics, etc.) inside. This has been common among racers, anyway. And as you point out, low-end owners aren't going to respect the intangible "value" that you get from spending 40% of a car's worth on a single OEM part such as a differential. Which is to say, in my opinion, Ferraris that can be obtained for less than $200,000 are eventually going to eschew "factory perfection." And I think that will inevitably bite Ferrari in the butt. Give it 15 years and you'll see an entirely different attitude among owners. For a while it was "keep it original" but at some point in the future it will be something entirely different.
Rob, Best of luck with whatever you decide. Just keep in mind whether or not you will enjoy the car with a temporary fix,... or will you forever wonder when it is going to let you down. Good luck. Simon
The new one piece diff from Ferrari is about $3000 not bad IMO and wil solve this problem, the issue is you need to reshim and set up the ring and pinon and it takes skill and time as they are a PITA to get perfect, if you don't you'll blow the ring and pinion, then the labor to remove the trans, many shops will farm out the diff set up to a few experts. If you are good you could probably drop the trans yourself, pay $3k for the new diff and some misc for gaskets and oil then send out the trans to be reshimmed and set up with the new diff, labor should be under $1200 so <$5000DIY repair if you didn't break anything
Just out of curiosity, is this issue listed in the TR section? Seems like having a big chance of having such a major break at 85K miles should be a well known issue to all TR owners, and more importantly, would-be TR owners. And what if someone keeps driving the car after it cracks or does a temp repair (JB Weld rules!) and then drives it, resulting in blowing up the car (as in Napolis' dramatic example)? Seems like owning a TR is akin to owning a timebomb. At least in a Pinto, another car has to actually hit you. Personally, I would expect more from a Kia than a problem like this coming from the first "modern-era" Ferrari (or by now, I guess it's "mid-modern" with the 360 starting the "modern" era). "Ferrari" – it's supposed to be the pinnacle of high technology, not having built-in weaknesses that can cause this dramatic of a failure at only 85K miles! Big bills are expected when rebuilding vintage 12-cylinder cars or when an owner breaks a newer car, but hearing of a problem like this just pisses me off. The high purchase and upkeep costs of these cars should also include some presumed sense of superiority above and beyond the amazing driving experience (or for some, the prestige). Bottom line: Ferrari’s should also be better built than a damn Kia (and this has nothing to do with what I personally can or cannot afford, it has to do with getting your money’s worth when it’s spent, especially for so-called “luxury class goods”. Class action suits have been created for much less noble issues... (talk about lawyers...). OR…. is this a problem in one out of 1000 cars, making it more of a construction anomaly (the same drunk-after-lunch technician built ALL the problem TRs), than an engineering mistake?
99.7% of all of the Testarossas will never come CLOSE to 85K miles..... At the current rate, mine will take 70+ years to reach 85K miles - sad, but true.
I'm a JB weld guy. You have to pick your spots. It's not "liquid steel" and it won't stick to everything, especially if it's not clean. For a non-stressed area, it's worth a try if there's no catastrophic downside if it fails. It is heat resistent and really strong, but as noted, it may come off. And gas/oil DOES dissolve it. This looks far beyond a JB Weld solution since the crack is just a symptom.. Ken
It sounds to me like the design was changed for the 512TR. There are a few instances I can think of, as a relative newbie to the Ferrari world, of bad design being corrected as a model evolved. 355 manifolds, 348 single cam belt design, 308 ignitions and fuse blocks, TR single-splined wheels, minor stuff like the hood prop on the 328 through '88.5 - probably the technical veterans on this board could come up with many more. There's a quote in some buyer's guide, maybe the one for the 308 on the FCA site, that says, in effect, "don't expect too much". Ferrari produces limited production, extreme performance cars (a TR in '86 was serious hardware, and still is, in some respects). Design improved along the way. I was at lunch today with maybe 8 other Ferrari owners, and one point that was made was that every model has its Achilles Heel. In other words, there are weakness built into all of them because Ferrari tends (tended?) to learn as it goes along. The TR is among my favorites. I really hope Testarob gets his car back on the road at a reasonable cost and that this thread ends up in some kind of permanent, realistic fix for a TR weakness.
Modena engineering..best diff on the market for the TRs. I use nothing but. Beautiful peice of work. Ring and pinion by what he is describing is more then likly still intact and could be used without an issue. Remove exhaust, and clutch housing, clutch and fly wheel assembly. Drain fluid, remove both axels from the car, remove rear engnie mount bolts. Support rear of trans. Remove all nuts AND studs from diff cover. With a deadblow hammer, gently tap front of cover, and remove. Remove oil slinger and there is you diff. Remove side covers,tilt diff to the left and pull out. Examine and replace parts needed. You will need the following..Left side cover, diff carrier, diff bearings(local source no more then 200 bucks for the pair). Remove the old bearing races from the side covers, and shims which are underneith them. Use these shims as a starting point for your measurments. This job DOES NOT REQUIRE ENGINE REMOVAL or trans seperation form the enigne. Even if you do sperate the trans from the engine, you will find no top access to the diff, as it is enclosed in its seperate section of the trans. Check check and recheck all measurments of the diff, and then chek it again, reshimming as needed. I have the shims machined by a machine shop to what ever size I need..its as complete joke what ferrari charges for the shims. Once you have it all measured up, order the appropritate right hand side cover spacer plate inorder to set propper bearing preload and you done. Flush it out, seal it back up and off you go.
That's a great post! Very thoughtful. You just showed Rob how to go from a $20k repair down to a $5k repair in 4 paragraphs. Pretty darn cool in my book.
Well, in all fairness, a 1987 Testrossa is essentially a street-legal race-car built with 1980's technology. It's now two decades old. You can't expect it to behave as if it was a new car made in 2006 with 21st century manufacturing technology. That's a part of Ferrari ownership that is counter intuitive...as the cars look so good, so modern, so fast...that it's easy to forget that any given model is 20 or 30 years old. 30 year old Corvettes and Porsche 911's have issues, too!
Good perspective - and you're absolutely right! Perhaps I've been a tad harsh on my favorite brand in the world... But if a T-R is now 30 years old, that must mean that I'm...Sh-it!!! (Hey tbakowsky, how about doing a set of how-to videos!) Good luck Rob.
