TR engine turns off by itself | FerrariChat

TR engine turns off by itself

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by ManCar, Aug 23, 2009.

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  1. ManCar

    ManCar Karting

    May 6, 2009
    142
    Down South
    I'm trying to figure out why my engine, with no signs of trouble, turns itself off. The car runs great and I don't notice any signs of trouble before it stalls. Once it stalls, all electrical still works and the car will restart and drive again. I looked under the hood and did see that my alternator cooling cap was missing and the hose tucked away by the fuel neck. Someone obviously forgot to put it back on when the alternator was rebuilt. I also checked the volts at the battery right before it died and I got a constant 13.4. Could the alternator be over heating with the cooling duct? Are my volts at the battery high enough? Any other suggestions to test? I'm two for two on it stalling so I'm pretty sure it will happen again. Thanks...
     
  2. oldcoin

    oldcoin Formula Junior

    May 1, 2006
    258
    Reno NV
    Full Name:
    Tony Mitchell
    As you look at the engine from the back of the car. Underneath the left air cleaner, there is a round electrical connector. This connector plugs in and threads (screws) into a mating connector on the chassis frame. Make sure that this connector is tight. Solved my similar problem a couple of years ago.

    Tony
     
  3. ManCar

    ManCar Karting

    May 6, 2009
    142
    Down South
    Thanks, I couldn't find any loose connectors but that relay near the left side of the intake sleeve was restting on the block. I tied it up better so it didn't touch anything. I wonder if the relay got too hot from restting on the block face down?
     
  4. oldcoin

    oldcoin Formula Junior

    May 1, 2006
    258
    Reno NV
    Full Name:
    Tony Mitchell
    Don't mean to be pushy, but.

    Disconnect the described connector, I think it is called the 9-pin connector and reconnect being certain that is is connected all the way in.

    Tony
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    The OP has a TR, not a 512TR.
     
  6. ManCar

    ManCar Karting

    May 6, 2009
    142
    Down South
    I was wondering why I had a hard time finding something under the air filter. My airfilter has another canister below it and I can't see any connectors below it.

    Anything else I could try and look at?
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Is it a US version TR? -- i.e., engine family F113A040?
     
  8. ManCar

    ManCar Karting

    May 6, 2009
    142
    Down South
    Yes, F113A040.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #9 Steve Magnusson, Aug 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It would really be easier to figure out if it didn't restart so well ;) Seriously, since it quasi-works almost all of the time, it leaves almost too many possibilities because you can't do tests and rule things in or out (which is the usual way to diagnose problems and zero in on where the trouble is).

    On the ignition side, it could be as diabolical as a Gremlin inside the MicroPlex ECU itself or a flaky connection to the flywheel sensors or in the +12V power to run the ignition system. One (easy) thing you might do is there is a small round 4 pin connector for the flywheel sensor under the coolant expansion tank (along with a 9-pin square connector) -- you might unplug/reseat this small round 4-pin connector just to be sure it isn't loose.

    On the injection side, the KE-Jet TR have a safety system where:

    a signal from the (working) 7/12 coil + power module is fed to the tachometric relay,

    when this signal is present (along with power and ground), the tachometric relay is closed,

    which closes the fuel pump relays and runs the fuel pumps.

    So here too -- if something is flaky in the 7/12 coil + power module or the tachometric relay (either internally or in the connections), this could be causing your fuel pumps to stop running. One way to rule this in or out would be to wire up a 12V test light between the 85 and 86 male tabs on one of the fuel pump relays (while it is still plugged in) and run the wires so you can have the test light inside the passenger cabin with you. This test light should always be on when the engine is running -- so, if it went out while the engine was running, (and then the engine died a few moments later after the fuel pressure fell), this would be a sign that something is wrong in this tachometric system.

    Alternatively, it could be as simple as the fuel pump connections in the white connectors at the bottom of the fuse-relay panel are getting flaky/burned, and when one pump stops running, the engine stalls. You might unplug the "y" connector (which requires unplugging the "x" connector first), and look for any burning on the fuel pump connections as shown in these examples below.

    Give a shout if you find something interesting, or if the problem get more consistent.
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  10. ManCar

    ManCar Karting

    May 6, 2009
    142
    Down South
    If Y is the bottom right white connector and #4 from the right is 1-6 Fuel Pump, then I see where it is burned and someone tried to fix it with a female connector. It isn't snug by any means on the terminal. How can I fix this one connector? Good catch Steve I hope this is the problem.
     
  11. ManCar

    ManCar Karting

    May 6, 2009
    142
    Down South
    Steve, I found your fix thread. I'll let you knoe...:)
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes -- it's not exactly a "new" subject here ;)

    But to answer your question, I'd say that there are several reasonable ways:

    1. Add some sort of high-current capable connection directly from the output terminal of the existing fuel pump relays to the corresponding P or PN wire leaving the "y" white connector (virtually bypassing the white connector) -- this is what I did. Although ,on your early US TR, I'm unsure if the 30 terminal or the 87 terminal would be the output terminals from the fuel pump relays (because I don't have the early US TR schematics). With the key "off", if you remove one of the fuel pump relays and measure the voltage from the 30 terminal -to- ground and from the 87 terminal -to- ground, the one that is not at +12V is the output terminal that would be connected to the P or PN wire going to the fuel pump.

    or

    2. Instead of connecting the output terminals of the stock fuel pump relays to the P and PN wires directly, use the output terminals of the stock fuel pump relays to trigger 2 additional relays that you independently supply +12V power to -- i.e., the stock fuel pump relay triggers the added relay that then supplies the +12V (and the big current) to the P or PN wire going to the fuel pump. This requires that the stock connection in the white "y" connector be in good enough condition to supply enough current to close the added relay (maybe ~150 mA), but it won't be further frazzled.

    or

    3. Remove the stock fuel pump relay completely from the fuse-relay panel, and run jumper wires from the 85 terminal and the 86 terminal of the relay socket to the 85 and 86 terminal of an added relay where you, again, independently supply +12V to the added relay and connect the P or PN wire to the output terminal of the added relay.

    Give a shout if something comes up, but, if you do a search on "TR white connectors", you should get a lot of prior backgound/discussion.
     
  13. ManCar

    ManCar Karting

    May 6, 2009
    142
    Down South
    Update... Well after not giving up on the issue being spark related I started replacing things. Both coils & modules, tach relay, relay with fuse, and cleaned a bunch of connections. None of these helped so I went with a complete tuneup. Replaced rotors, caps, wires and plugs. This is where I think I found the problem. #10 plug had ZERO gap..... The wire was gatorbacked from heat and shorting and thus the rotor had a burn mark on it. Once everything was reassmebled I took the car for a ride. The car ran strong and it never cutoff. I'll take it for another cruise later to be completely convinced but I think I fixed it. What a journey but I learned a lot from you guys so thanks.....
     

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