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TR Water Pump Question

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by khayes, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. khayes

    khayes Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    591
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Kelly Hayes
    My 86 TR recently lost a small amount of coolant after a small rubber hose busted that connects two metal pipes together on the engine. The hose looked old and brittle and split at the hose clamp. The hose has been replaced, both thermostats replaced and new coolant added and the system has been pressurized and air has been bled from the right and left bleed valves right above the two radiators. The problem is that the car now overheats shortly after start up and it appears that water is not circulating. The water pump was replaced a year and 5,000 miles ago at the 20,000 mile engine out service.

    Is there something simple that I am missing on bleeding the coolant system properly or could it be the water pump? Is there a place to bleed the heater core up front? Any suggestions that would save me from having to pull the engine again would be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Kelly
     
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  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    19,505
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Sorry for asking the obvious -- and the third bleed valve on top of the thermostat housing?

    I wouldn't worry too much about the WP yet -- i.e., pretty hard for a WP to be non-functional without a lot of other horrible mechanical consequences occurring (or at least showing up fairly quickly). In an odd way, overheating quickly (if that means the coolant temp gauge displays a high temperature quickly) might be a sign that coolant is at least flowing somewhat in the block circuit (i.e., hot coolant is reaching/passing the temperature thermistor). If it was just a total non-circulating lump, I'd guess that the cylinders/heads would be in serious trouble way before the remote gauge gave a high indication (but just a guess).
     
  4. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,854
    Kelly - sounds like air in the cooling system. Symptoms are typical. As suggested, there is a center bleed screw below the center of the rear window. It is often easier to remove the engine-area forward deck by removing the 4, 10mm screws. This provides easy access to the bleed screw. The difficulty is that if not previously removed, it may be corroded to the aluminum pipe. I had to re-tap mine when the engine was out.

    There is a bleed screw at the radiator. I cannot remember, amongst my various F-cars, where it is at this moment, but it is typically on the upper-most right (passenger) side of the radiators. I would definitely start the car, open that bleed screw, and remove the air.

    The sypmtoms sound like trapped air. Have fun.

    Jim S.
     
  5. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,813
    Do yourself a favor... don't remove the bleed screws.

    The front, centrally located screw has a slit running up its side that allows air to escape without having to remove the screw - just loosen 3 or 4 turns.

    The side bleeds work like a brake bleed screw - just loosen 1 or 2 turns.

    You just saved yourself a 20 minute hunt trying to find the front middle screw after dropping it down the front of the engine. BT, DT.

    Rgds,
    Vince
     
  6. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,813
    #5 vincenzo, Nov 24, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  8. khayes

    khayes Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    591
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Kelly Hayes
    Thanks for the great tips everyone. The car is at Moorerspeed in David's competant hands now and after removing a large coolant hose from the pump and inserting a mirror and light into the pump he can see that the water pump impeller is not turning when he manually turns the engine. Seems like the problem is the water pump for sure now. I didn't want to pull the engine again but I think there is no way around it now. He tried bleeding air from all three bleed screws and we still saw temps go up quickly. This water pump is only 12 months and 5,000 miles old. There are no new water pumps in inventory at any of the dealers in the US right now so this could take a while to resolve. Looks like I have had my last f-car drive of the year and it wasn't even a fun one.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    19,505
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Sorry to hear it worked out that way. I guess if the drive chain failed/separated gracefully, the bits could stay in the sump without causing more damage. I'm sure it will be an interesting autopsy (even though $ painful)...
     
  10. Boxer12

    Boxer12 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2003
    1,672
    Misery loves company...on my last drive of the season, just drying things off after a final wash, I curbed it...HRE wheels...ouch.

    (P.S.-Don't jinx your friends by saying things like "Hey, awesome wheels, but what if you curb it?")
     
  11. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,813
    Sounds like the water pump never had the post 1989 upgrade.

    Seems the master link on the older drive chains had a habit of coming apart.

    Make sure the car is updated and not just repaired!

    Rgds,
    Vince
     
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  13. Steve Marschman

    Steve Marschman Karting

    Nov 4, 2003
    60
    Idaho Falls
    Full Name:
    Steve Marschman
    If the darn thing has to come out, update the pump to 512TR spec. The parts for those should be available. My '88,5 was updated by Carlo Durante of Alfa of Tacoma.
     
  14. khayes

    khayes Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    591
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Kelly Hayes
    I just returned from Moorespeed and David has already pulled the engine and diagnosed the problem. Wow, that was fast. The woodruf key sheared off the water pump shaft and gear. He located the pieces and is going to install a new shaft, gear, chain and key. I told him to go ahead and replace the timing belts since they are removed. I should be back up and running soon.

    That is the first time I have seen a Testarossa engine/drivetrain on the ground. What a behemoth of a powerplant. I was suprised to see the water pump impeller made out of brass instead of plastic.
     
  15. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Hi Kelly. I'm glad the diagnosis was easy and the repair simple. All the best,

    Shan
     

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