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TR with seized cam

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by PETE CHURCH, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. PETE CHURCH

    PETE CHURCH Rookie

    Feb 15, 2004
    14
    I have a 90 TR with a seized 7/12 intake cam. Major service was done at 25K. Belts, bearings, waterpump etc. has run flawlessly for 5K until cam seized. I have engine out and apart. wiped cam journal and bent 2 intake valves. Has anyone come across this problem and is it common? Any input on possible causes?
     
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  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,110
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Never seen that before on a Ferrari. But there is more then likely a blockage somewere in the oil gallery in the head or block. What may have also happend is one or more of the cam caps was installed incorrectly during the 30k if they removed the cams for some reason. This would cause the cam to bind because when the cam jurnels are honed at the factory they are honed with the caps in place. This is why they are numbered so they go back in the same spot.

    Did your engine have alot of silicone sealer applyed to the gaskets? If so some of it may have ended up in the sump..and then was drawn into the engine and causeing a blockage in an oil gallery.

    Be sure prior to reassembly to completely clean the entire enigne block halfs by blowing compresed air through all galleries including the heads. Be sure to check the cams for blockage as well. Oil travels through them to lube the cam jurnels.

    Tom
     
  4. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
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    Hans E. Hansen
    I know little about the TR specifically, but cam seizures in OHC engines is often caused by oil starvation. Maybe a plugged oil passage?
     
  5. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
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    I would make awful darn sure that the correct bearing cap was on in the correct position. There is probably enough splash to let the bearing live with a plugged passage.
    Start documenting with film photos as you disassemble it. You may not end up paying for this repair.
     
  6. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    With regards to the bad cam bearing cap; can someone explain how this is repaired?

    Curious..........!
     
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  8. PETE CHURCH

    PETE CHURCH Rookie

    Feb 15, 2004
    14
    Oil pressure was fine prior to problem. All cam caps were installed correctly. Both cam jouranls and housing bores other then seized one were within specs and looked to be well lubicated. All cams clear of any debris or buildup. The first journal behind cam gear seized. Was wondering if belt tension could have had anything to do with it? Evaluating fix to problem now and will pass on information at later date.
     
  9. james patterson

    james patterson Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 8, 2003
    417
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    James Patterson
    I have seen this on rare occasion. Remove the oil feel restrictor/dowel pin in the block and see if it is not pluged with debris. We just repaired the same problem on an 87 TR, it had a small piece of silicone stuck in the restrictor. There is a factory reemer to repair the line hone for the cam journals.

    Good luck,
    James Patterson
    Norwood Performance
     
  10. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    James: It would seem to me that a frozen, or loose, cam would make the cam bearing opening bigger. I have seen the reamer in the WSM, but wouldn't one have to weld some aluminum material onto the cam bearing surfaces, before using the reamer?.......to compensate for the larger opening.
     
  11. james patterson

    james patterson Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 8, 2003
    417
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    James Patterson
    Henryk - Your right, you would ream the journals after welding and rough cutting the line bore for the cams.
     
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  13. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    As for reaming the caps, I have seen them (for main bearing caps) machine material off the bottom of all the caps (.020-.030") then line bore and ream. The center line of the cam is changed slightly, but this should not hurt anything. This would probably work on the good ones, but for the siezed one you might have to get another cap. In most of the heads I have looked at, there is very minimal wear on the "head side" of the caps. I have looked at quite a few heads in self-service wrecking yards. My interest with this "head research" has been the finish on the cams and the caps.
    Mark
     
  14. PETE CHURCH

    PETE CHURCH Rookie

    Feb 15, 2004
    14
    James thanks for the headsup on the dowels. Just pulled mine and found what appears to be a piece of glue or epoxy used to assemble oil filter. Purchased new dowels from Ferrai which are now slotted to possibly help with this problem. Have located all parts and repairs are now under way. Question what is your input on using a Staeger gauge for belt tension? Thanks again, PETE
     
  15. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    Pete: I currently have my TR engine out, for a major service. While out, I would like to check this dowel on mine, while I am at it. Can you tell me where it is?

    Thanks.
     
  16. PETE CHURCH

    PETE CHURCH Rookie

    Feb 15, 2004
    14
    henryk the dowels in question are located in the block which serve as a locater and oil feed to the head. The driver side upper rear is oil feed for that head. The passenger side lower rear is oil feed for that side. The other two dowels are just that dowels. The heads will have to come off to access these pieces.
     
  17. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    Thanks Pete: I don't want to take the heads off.........so I will just leave it alone.
     
  18. PETE CHURCH

    PETE CHURCH Rookie

    Feb 15, 2004
    14
    #15 PETE CHURCH, Mar 17, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    19,279
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    Steve Magnusson
    Pete -- description please?
     
  20. PETE CHURCH

    PETE CHURCH Rookie

    Feb 15, 2004
    14
    #17 PETE CHURCH, Mar 17, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sorry guys, the silver piece in the picture is the oil feed restrictor/dowel pin from the driver side block that feeds the head and cams etc. The piece sticking out of it is a piece of glue or epoxy used to assemble the oil filter. Here is a better picture for you.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Thanks for clarifying Pete.

    That's a tough situation -- nothing you could have done to prevent (and we don't even have the option of using a different brand oil filter)...
     
  22. tifosi69

    tifosi69 Formula 3

    Dec 23, 2003
    1,671
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Full Name:
    Al-Al Cool J
    Sorry to hear about your mishap, hope all will turn out ok and not too expensive.
     
  23. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    6,051
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    dave m
    What brand is the offending oil filter?
    Fram?
    Dave
     
  24. PETE CHURCH

    PETE CHURCH Rookie

    Feb 15, 2004
    14
    The oil filter in question is straight ftom FERRAI of which I have a couple on hand which appear to be a little differant. I am checking now to see if FERRAI is aware of the differance. I am unaware of any aftermarket oil filters for TR. Maybe somebody else has come across them?
     
  25. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    19,279
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    Steve Magnusson
    So far no one has ever found/posted anything other than the UFI brand for the (odd-ball) TR oil filter.
     
  26. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    I would firmly communicate this situation to the oil filter manufacturer; it seems like they may have some responsibility.

    Good Luck,
    Mark
     
  27. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    19,024
    socal
    Jim said snip..."small piece of silicone stuck in the restrictor."

    One reason I never use silicone on these cars. Problem with the obvious Ofilter prob is that I guarantee they will not fess up to responsibility.
     
  28. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    19,024
    socal
    You know if this is a UFI filter they also has some problems about 1 yr ago with 308 filters and everyone was switching to Baldwins. You guys may want to search the archives for that.
     

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