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TR won't start.

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by CanuckCarguy, Mar 23, 2008.

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  1. CanuckCarguy

    CanuckCarguy Rookie

    Jul 20, 2007
    48
    Alberta, Canada
    #1 CanuckCarguy, Mar 23, 2008
    Okay, so I went to start my 1991 Testarossa yesterday. No luck. It cranked okay, but wouldn't fire. I gave up after about 4 attempts, each one about 20-30 seconds long.

    It's normally a good starter, though I sometimes have to give it a bit of gas. I did have some problems last year with it surging after starting, for about a minute. But it's always started okay.

    It's been parked for the winter, but I've started it every month or so, backed it out of the garage, and let it run for 30 minutes or so. I last did this in late January / early February.

    I can smell gas, so I'm pretty sure it's getting fuel. All the fuses are fine. But there's no spark on either side. The rotors are turning. It's due for a major service (in fact, that's why I was starting it, I was about to drive it to my friend's shop to get busy...).

    Any ideas? I'm thinking bad ground somewhere, but I'm no mechanic, any suggestions where I might look first? It did need a battery charge as well before I tried starting it, if this seems relevant...

    Thanks in advance for any advice...

    maurice.
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,822
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Mar 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    No spark on either bank during actual starter motor cranking is most likely caused by one of the flywheel sensors, or (hopeful not) the ignition ECU itself, or no +12V power to the ignition system. Try a search on "TR flywheel sensor" or something like that for prior discussion. Bottom line is that you should:

    1. Unplug the RPM flywheel sensor and measure the DC resistance of the RPM sensor by connecting the multimeter probes to the two pins in the connector -- should be ~700 Ohms. If not (like 0 Ohms or infinite Ohms), it's bad for sure. If it measures OK, it could still be bad.

    2. Repeat step 1 for the TDC sensor.

    If you pass both steps 1 and 2 then it gets a little harder because you need to make an AC voltage measurement across each sensor while it's plugged in and active during starter motor cranking (as shown in the jpeg). The RPM sensor should be something like more than 2.0V AC during cranking, and the TDC sensor would be more than 0.2V AC during cranking. If both sensors measured nothing, I would suspect/check for the +12V power, but try steps 1 and 2 first (and wiggle/reseat the connectors under the coolant tank) -- maybe you'll get lucky and find the trouble without needing to go too deep ;)
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  3. CanuckCarguy

    CanuckCarguy Rookie

    Jul 20, 2007
    48
    Alberta, Canada
    #3 CanuckCarguy, Mar 23, 2008
    I'm going to try this tomorrow and post an update.

    thanks very much for the help.
     
  4. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    #4 vincenzo, Mar 23, 2008
    Any chance this may have caused damage? Perhaps a high voltage spike from a big commercial charger? Was the key was in the ignition? Was the battery disconnect switch used to isolate the battery from the system?

    Perhaps an old wives tale - but I have always understood that the TR computer is sensitive to voltage spikes. This is why I've always used a trickle charger which cuts off at full voltage. Perhaps just an old wives tale???

    Good luck,
    Vince
     
  5. CanuckCarguy

    CanuckCarguy Rookie

    Jul 20, 2007
    48
    Alberta, Canada
    #5 CanuckCarguy, Mar 24, 2008
    That's a good thought, but I didn't have to boost it, only charge it.

    I put a slow (2A) charge on it, overnight. Automatic charger. No keys. Though I didn't flick the battery disconnect switch... probably should have, but never thought to. The battery was stone dead, which surprised me - I haven't had that problem before. That's why I was thinking maybe a bad ground?
     
  6. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
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    #6 MS250, Mar 24, 2008

    Maurice, get CAA, put your cars all listed and spend the $100, get it towed to the shop.
    Stop searching, and get it fixed , and do your service since your due as you mentioned....no headaches...simple.
     
  7. CanuckCarguy

    CanuckCarguy Rookie

    Jul 20, 2007
    48
    Alberta, Canada
    #7 CanuckCarguy, Mar 25, 2008
    Thanks, Big Red, I have CAA already, and have every intention of having it towed if I can't track the problem easily. You know how it is, I just want to hear the rumble of that big 12...

    But thanks for the heads-up. I contacted them already, and confirmed that they have a deck truck with low-clearance ramps.
     
  8. Hawaii

    Hawaii Formula Junior

    Jan 28, 2007
    847
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Emery
    #8 Hawaii, Mar 25, 2008
    Steve
    Great illustration as usual! Does the TR's come with a battery disconnect switch from the factory???? If so location?
     
  9. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    #9 MS250, Mar 25, 2008
    cool...the longer it would sit in the garage the more it would hurt me knowing i couldnt pull the trigger, so for me....thats the 1st call id make....lol....the next one would be to the shop....i want it back tomorrow :D

    Just hearing that the potential surge problems you could encounter, and maybe doing more damage than good, your better off in the long run....thats all i was trying to say mate.
    Hope you get her back soon..............look at it this way, its not like your going to a body shop like Kenco? we all come across pains with these things...damn ferrari's


    yes it does, its on the passenger side underthe front deck lid...over the front wheel....very close to the battery
     
  10. CanuckCarguy

    CanuckCarguy Rookie

    Jul 20, 2007
    48
    Alberta, Canada
    #10 CanuckCarguy, Mar 25, 2008
    It would hurt more if it wasn't scheduled for service anyway.
     
  11. rjtw

    rjtw Karting

    Jan 25, 2006
    50
    #11 rjtw, Mar 26, 2008
    I'm not familiar with the TR but have some exeperience with the older Bosch systems on other cars. As a default rule... especially where the car ran fine until it was stored for a while... check fuses and, in particular, relays! Try swapping in a spare ignition relay.
     
  12. CanuckCarguy

    CanuckCarguy Rookie

    Jul 20, 2007
    48
    Alberta, Canada
    #12 CanuckCarguy, Jun 23, 2008
    Well, the economy here is on fire, and I waited 3 months for an appointment on the TR, only to be put off (again!) for a few weeks. I decided, "Hey, it's just a car, right"? So I did the things I should have done to begin with: removed the distributor caps and cleaned them, removed the rotors and cleaned them, and finely sanded any discoloration on either part away. I cleaned everything with a good electrical contact cleaner. Then I added water displacer to the fuel and topped it up with about 15 litres (4 gallons or so) of fresh fuel - I wintered it about 3/4 full, but thought this might be a good idea anyway, fresh gas can't hurt. I removed the battery completely for a proper charge, and removed all fuses and relays one by one, checked and cleaned them, and re-installed them.

    Now, who knows which of these steps actually worked, but the car started on the third attempt. After about 100 miles of driving, she's purring. Plus, unlike last year, I don't have to depress the accelerator at all to get the car running, it starts after about 2-3 seconds of crank, and runs smoothly. The only issue I still have is some surging immediately after a cold start, but it's not affecting performance.

    Pretty bad to wait until mid-June to get the car out on the road, but that's northern Alberta living anyway. At least we have those long days to enjoy for a few months...
     
  13. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
    Texas
    #13 jratcliff, Jun 23, 2008
    God.

    John
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,822
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #14 Steve Magnusson, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. isaydingdong

    isaydingdong Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2014
    290
    ny
    Full Name:
    Sy Sperling
    #15 isaydingdong, Jun 30, 2016
    Good luck
     
  16. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran

    Jan 11, 2012
    6,329
    Papineauville, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Claude Laforest
    #16 godabitibi, Jun 30, 2016
    Steve, why do they need to be connected and active? I would have just unplug them crank and check their voltage, no?
     

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