Track Car Advice for New Addict?

Any street car on the track is a compromise, performance and safety wise.

Biggest bang for the buck for a dedicated track car is a Spec Miata. You can find reliable ready to track cars, though certainly not front of the pack, for $10K. Consumables and repairs are far less expensive on this than any Porsche. If you are stuck with an $8K budget, you could get an old RX-7 race car and have plenty left over for consumables, track fees, etc.

Building your own car will always be more expensive than buying a car that is already prepared. Sometimes much more, ask me how I know. Unless you really enjoy putting the sweat equity in and want to spend weekends in the garage covered in oil, buy a car that has already been built.

 

Spec Miata. Clearly the bang for buck champ. Cheap parts. When you get the Jones to go racing, you will have big fields to race against. Also you'll have a car that someone else wants to buy when you decide you want something faster. You won't get a front runner for 8K, but you should be able to get a reliable car for that.

 

I concur on the Spec Miata. It's a relatively affordable way to go to the track, but, as mentioned, it may be more than your budget (both capital and operating). Get a copy of the SCCA's "SportsCar" magazine. They usually have a few listed in there. You'll pay more for a fresh, proven-winner than you would for a tired-out car in need of work, but you will probably do better in the long run with the fresher car.

CW

 

When I began reading your post I immediately thought the same... Miata.
It's going to be hard to beat in the " bang for the buck" catigory. Good news is, you can buy one run it, and if you want to move up, there wont be much of a loss for a well maintained car. I also concur with the above posts, buy a car already prepared. It's ALWAYS going to cost less, especially if you factor in tour time. Good on the hunt and please keep us all posted.

Darrell.

 

There is no doubt that a spec Miata is the best bang for the buck but most people coming from a Ferrari are going to find it painfully slow. The other thing besides lack of power that will slow you down is how fast you are willing to push the car and what level you will drive the thing at. If you are willing to learn and develop the skills neccesary to drive one proficiently you will have a fast car that will be just as fast in the corners (maybe faster) than many street Ferrari's. But unless you race most people never develop the skills to drive one fast enough. This combined with low power will make the car seem slow.

I would steer clear of 944's. They are maintenance intensive and parts are not cheap like on a Miata. I have a half dozen friends who race 944 Cup and Super Cup. They can be made into fast cars but the maint. costs are at least double the Miata's.

A better car would be an E36 M3 for about 11-13K for a used 96 or 95. Again higher maintenance costs but a much faster car than either the Miata or the 944 and a much better chassis to work with.

Just my 02 worth.

Regards,

JK

 

I have a totally different take on this subject. Your wife is going to hate me. I say you enjoy the Ferrari on the track because it is a ferrari on the track. That is part if not a significant part of the joy. You can go faster in literally anything built up than a Ferrari but personally I don't get jollies out of racing a hopped up 79 mustang. No offense but part of the thrill in my wheel to wheel racing is the risk of putting expensive dents in the Ferrari. Who wears the pants in your family? If you are safe and take the proper precaustions and make good compromises for a dual use car...I say run the Ferrari and enjoy life. There is racing and then racing a Ferrari. The latter is more fun.

 

i see BOTH sides of this argument and agree he should go spec Miata. Cheap car, easy to get parts, good resale, and if something NOT under his control happens on the track and trashes the car he can walk away with a small loss. Thing happen on track he has NO control of (other drivers, mechanical failure of his car, mechanical failure of another car causes his car to get totaled, etc.) These are the REALITIES of tracking.

Am sure you put your Ferrari on the track FatBillyBob. Am curious which car do you track that you own? Just wondering.


His car is a 456, not a 355/360/420... or even a lowly 308. Sure the 456 Ferrari is faster than a basic Miata, but we must remember that ANY CAR YOU PUT ON A TRACK YOU MUST ALSO BE WILLING TO HAVE IT PUSHED OFF A HIGH CLIFF AND NOT CARE. Your profile says "Life is painless for the brainless"... and the brainless might not care about trashing a $100k Ferrari for beater track driving. But he admits to be new at the 'game'... spec Miata gets my vote. Let him gets some chops/skills/seat time.


RON AND THAT LITTLE VOICE: Listen to others, go Miata. Only insane guys like me start out with a Ferrari as their first 'serious' track rat. It makes NO sense to do it. Learn your skill, invest in Skip Barber or other driving school, read books about technique and setup, get 'safe' seat time when you can...

And welcome aboard! Tracking is addictive, expensive, and one of the best things in life... As always...

 

Well I see it like any sport you got to invest to play. I have more fun on racing skiis than rental junk and I'll pay to stay in a place with granite counter tops and all the trimmings so my wife will go skiing more. Why do people spend 3k on a trip to Aspen and still ski on straight skiis? Racing is no different. IMO you have to have alot of trust in the safety system and safety compromised the PO made with the Miata not to mention the quality of the rest of the car. So just for laughs lets add up some prices. I like the sport so I don't buy 60 dollar single layer suits or 100 dollar used race helmets or drive with 5 dollar gardening gloves.

This is on my body:
S21 helmet- 1200
omp suit-800
gloves- 100
shoes- 200
hans- 900
carbonx underwear- 200

This is on the car:
custom roll cage 3k (not mine but a fair price)
fire system up to date- 500-600
tires - scrubs 400/weekend new slicks 1600/weekend dot's almost 800/weekend
custom full containment seat 1200
harness 600

These are just for starters and these items would be marginally cheaper on a miata. This list is over half the value of the car but a fraction the cost of a ferrari. It just seem weird to have a $1200 helmet and get into a $2000 car. There is no question you can do all of this at much lower prices that I have quoted here but I almost guarantee if you love the sport these prices will only be the begining because if you buy cheap you will have bought all the cheap stuff and all this expensive stuff too. Cheap and racing are mutually exclusive unless you do karts. So that speaks to a bit about prices. Now if you want to question used miata safety systems we could go on forever discussing rollcage door intrusion, cromo vs mild steel, tubing sizes, anchoring plates, fires sytems etc. which are generally in the SM rulebook but are guidlines and I have seen plenty of SM's I would not get into for questionable but tech legal safety systems. Then another whole thread on driver personal safety gear. Then we can open up the can of worms about dedicated track cars vs. dual use. This can go on forever.

 

Karting!
As an avid track junkie with both cars and motorcycles I would submit that karting best fits your aims. More thrills per $ than any other track experience.
The best part is that within your budget you can buy a kart for your wife as well.
Now there's a way to settle domestic disputes.
Seriously, I recommend doing an arrive and drive kart rental before making any purchase decisions.
TW

 

I tend toward this philosophy, as I just went thru this for the past year, albeit with a bit higher budget (so I went for a 2000 Viper GTS, which I have spent another $15K setting up for track). I suggest you also consider a mid-80's NA Porsche Carrera. They can be set up for track with a pair of good shocks, brake pads and tires. It's a coupe v sedan thing. [Note-do you want a car your grandma can drive fast around the track or one that enjoys a master's touch?) Have fun considering the options. And setting it up yourself is half the fun and gets you very intimate with the car. You will want to add harness, rollbar, etc, down the road. Jim

 

I would agree and disagree. (Sounds like a politician doesn't it?) A Spec Miata is capable of doing much more than most drivers can dish out. But, it takes a while to get to where you have the blind faith that taking a corner flat out in 4th, without lifting, will not kill you. Once you do it, however, it is a hoot.

The counter point was given to me by another SM driver. He said that he hates his car. But, why would you race a car you like? Let's be frank here. Racing is nothing more than a controlled crash. If you're going to race, you will end up beating the crap out of your car. So why ruin a great car? Drive your Ferrari to the disco and a SM on the track.

I also agree that you have to race. Just running laps ain't gonna do it. The bad news is that the best of the Spec Miata class are scary good. They have to be. The good news is that the class has gotten so big that you typically have three or four races during each race.

That said, when I grow up, I'm gonna get me a Challenge car so that I can munch those Spec Miatas on the straight!

Dale

 

Fatbillybob,

You, sir, are very wise and agree fully that the cost of the safety equipment is pretty much equal no matter what you go driving with. Took over 18 months of slow work/finances to just get to the point where the 308 here would be 'safe' for track. Ron would need to do mods to his 456:

custom roll cage 3k (remember, the 456 is a FOUR seater)
fire system up to date- 500-600
custom full containment seat 1200 (and does this kill the 4 seat ability, probably so)
harness 600 (in a four seater car can be done, but awkward IMHO)

A $10k or so Miata track rat that checks out well will include some of the above already. My other concern is, frankly (and talking to/about myself as i type this as well) his possible lack of seat time/experience. Frankly, i'd rather see a fast driver in a slower car than a learning/slow driver in a fast car. If he does some type of league, his 456 will throw him into some VERY POWERFUL competition with guys that... you know what i am talking about here.

Of course none of us know his talents and for all we know his is a natural driver (Schuey Jr). Still, he mentions a Porsche 944 and safe, inexpensive (to buy, upgrade and run), street-legal.... $8k or less before tweaks.

Love your all-out attitude Fatbillybob, truly do. Yet doing up a 456 for track seems stupid to me. At least a 355 perhaps... but whatever. Think the Miata is perfect for him given HIS CHOSEN requirements.

(Said in good, friendly humor) Unless bro gonna parlay out some of that livin'-large cashola to a newbie racer. If so, you are my best friend and am right here. No need to look further and am driving a Ferrari on track per your wishes

PS: please fill out your profile

Can you spare me a paltry $4,000 for rubber during 2006 season?

 

I would say go with the Karting route. lots of speed, fun, safe, and relatively low cost (plus it doesn't take up too much space). If you must have a full body car, consider the early 90's camaro. They are really fast with minimal upgrades, large and safe, and cheap parts for repairs. I have watched them on track at SCCA events, and they look like they might launch from the road at any moment, but they also manage to keep up with the really expensive cars in their class. I also have a friend with a highly modified Porsche 914-6 that is really fast, and not too far from your budget to get started with it. I would buy some race group publications and see what interests you in the classified areas.
Mu $.02.

BT

 

Spec Miatas are fun & the racing is very good but they are sort of slow

Bang for the buck its very hard to beat a 90 Mustang 5.0 which is fun to drive sideways as well

A C4 Vette is also cheap & very fun & a lot faster than a Miata

 

Well I got respect for you driving the Ferrari as it was ment to be driven. Keep on it and have fun. Lots of guys will be faster than us but few will have more fun or do it with more style. As to rubber go scrubs unless you want to win. They are so cheap you use them and tos them. Fresh rubber is the best no two ways about it but if yu track alot scrubs get you 75 to 80% of the way there and they are better than new DOT's. And even fresh rubber burns off pretty quick. You get one or two great "O" laps and then its time for a cigarette.

 

My biggest problem with karts is the lack of belts and a roll bar. Yeah, yeah, I know that these things don't flip, but then why do those guys have those tire marks on their shoulders?

Dale

 

Everyone has overlooked the GT4! Cheap to buy and maintain, can be easily turned into a track car and you are still driving a Ferrari! I drive mine to the track and then on the track several times a year...it's a blast! There is another GT4 here that has been slightly moded that keeps up with 355's down the back straight at Mosport and even passes them in the corners. 300hp out of a GT4 is not unrealistic, especially if you start with the early Euro cars and it will still look stock if you don't put the cage in it. Great handling car and just a blast to drive. Just my .02

 

Time for a cigarette Love it! A most humble thanks for the compliment, MUCH appreciated! Many Fcar guys (and other track guys like Miata, Porsche, and the M3) think guys like me putting it on the track may be, well, lack sanity. But oh, the compliments roll in from quite a few guys too (style, sound, etc). Last weekend one guy said i deserve a trophy just for style points while another said the car sounded so amazing and he choose to just sit back and follow me for a lap or so to hear her roar(!).

As for 'cheap rubber,' hard to come by it seems and, frankly, my hopes are the Pilot Cups do well enough. They aint Hoosier, though with low funds... Still learning here anyway and with lowish budget am happy to just be able to be on the track and work on her myself as much as possible. FYI: will be back on the NHIS track Thursday, then at the Glen on Mon., Tue., Wed, AND Thu.

Kinesis is rushing out my second set of K27 rims for the new Pilot Cups i'm scrubbing in Tuesday and had a great chat with the owner of Kinesis yesterday (he wants a dark red 355 with tan interior btw).

Sorry for threadjack

The 'problem' is that the car had major preload problems due to stock sways with lowering suspension with the dual-adjustable shocks during last year. So the moment i went with uprated (and adjustable) sways this year it threw me into a higher class i will petition to get out of. Am against Factory 5 guys, prepped M3's, etc. These guys have 2x+ the power! Even with Rubber From The G-ds i don't stand a chance

Again, sorry for the threadjack and if you want to take this to PM feel free to PM me.

 

MOST EXCELLENT!!! Did Skippy at Lime Rock in July 2005 (probably same as you will) and you'll love it! Those little Formula Dodge cars have PLENTY of brakes but you need a strong leg (do not be afraid to push really hard the brakes while learning the car). Say hi to Carl Lopez for me

 

A Spec Miata is not slow in the hands of a skilled driver. It's low on horsepower, but not slow. A Spec Miata can turn sub-1:25 laps at MSR-Cresson. I don't see a C4 vette pulling that off on the same budget.

 

I'd suggest a few cars.

The Spec Miata is good for all the reasons mentioned.

However, I think the Spec E30 class certainly gives some food for thought when compared to the Miata. I've heard many very good things and the budget is very reasonable.

Spec RX-7 is another option. You will also have the added bonus of being able to race in any SCCA ITA event once you get a license.

NASA's Camaro Mustang Challenge is another arena you might want to consider. A little more oomph than any of the above, but you pay in the corners. However, an old American muscle car can't be beat for fun n' giggles besides the fact that you won't be too concerned about wadding it up as they're practically disposable.

You might even want to consider a Spec Racer Ford. Initial investment is high, but running costs are dirt cheap and you have the comfort of knowing you can sell the car for just as much as you bought it for if you go used.

In the end it will depend on your tastes and what kind of racing is hot in your area.

 

I have been racing the following:

NASA Florida with my 355 Challenge. Cost to purchase $ 60,000,
cost to run
tires for the weekend $ 400
entry fees $300
gas $100
additional maintenance $ 300

SCCA with my 1997 Miata SSB (Showroom Stock B).
SSB is basically stock suspension and stock everything but a roll cage and some other race options. The car behaves super cool in a track. I am posting some pictures.

1997 SSB Miata $7500
tires for the weekend $ 200
entry fee $300
gas $100
additional maintenance $ 200


SCCA Spec Miata (1990) SM class
just took delivery of the car. Will run it next weekend. Looks like a lot of fun. Has SM suspension kit. Just an overall fun car.

1990 Spec Miata $ 12000
tires for the weekend $ 200
entry fees $ 300
gas $100
additional maintenance $ 300
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My advise:

start of on the Miata. You will actually learn how to race a car a lot better in the Miata than on the Ferrari. The Ferrari will be able to trick you into forgiving a lot of mistakes you make driving, the Miata will tell you right in the face. There, here is 2sec less on your lap time. The Ferrari will tell you by 0.3sec., which you will probably not realise.

Hey, I can offer you either one of them The SSB is for sale and I have 3 355Challenge for sale as well.