Track cars

Matt, after you drive purpose built race cars, you'll never want to go back...

I drive a fully aluminum monocoque, two-seater, miniature "Can Am" sports racer called a Sports 2000. It's low, wide and very, very fast. Sure, you can buy an Atlantic or a Stohr WF-1, but I can run this car at track days, current club racing and do vintage and historic because it's twenty-five years old. It looks like a miniature 312PB and was built by two ex-Grand Prix New Zealanders in England named Tim Schenken and Howden Ganley (oh, and Tim was a factory Ferrari Sports Car driver, too). You can buy the best one of these for around $30K and I'm as quick as a 430 Challenge car at most tracks. It weighs 1310 lbs with me in it, uses slick tires and just never has to slow down...
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Martin (cavallinomotors) races Miatas and has a great time.

 

I had a Spec Miata for about 5 years and it was a great deal of fun. They are reliable and much faster than most people expect. This winter I made the jump to a Porsche GT3 Cup car and the difference is huge. Extremely fast but also extremely expensive to run after being a SM guy. I looked at the Challenge cars but on race day there is just not a very good option with those cars. Porsche club has a good showing of Cup cars almost every event so that is why I went with the cup car. I was just looking to go faster and at the end of the year I will make the determination if the extra speed was worth the cost. As stated above once you drive a race prepped car you won't want to drive anything else. I have had my 360 on the track only one time and while it was fun I had much more fun in my Spec Miata. I suspect I will get flamed for that comment but until you have tried it you should not knock it.

 

Actually, I agree with you 100%. As I have posted elsewhere, taking a production Ferrari to the track can be a real hoot so long as you realize that it is NOT a race car. Only a fool goes out and deliberately exceeds the design standard of a production car.

But I would be interested in hearing more about how your Cup car is compared to a SM. While there is no doubt that a SM is one of the most challenging cars to drive well, it can get, well, a little bit boring after while. That is, it appears that there is only one way to drive a SM -- brake late, release early, roll on throttle as soon as the front tires can take it. Corner after corner after corner. Don't misunderstand, I'm not pretending to the be a master of the technique. It is just wears me out after a while.

Back on point, I recently drove the Chevy C6 at Bondrant course and what a car! One of the other participants races a BMW in the World Challenge and even he was impressed. You just can't beat a V8 when it comes to instant torque. When combined with a 50/50 front engined car and great brakes, the result was impressive, even with run flats!

Frankly, I don't know why more people don't race this car instead of the Porsches. A Chebby has got to be half the cost.

Dale

 

Peter how does this car compare to a SFR? I assume that you have more power.

Also, I recently discovered that the slicks on a SFR are biased ply! No freaken wonder I have been playing spin the bottle...

Dale

 

If you do get flamed, the flamers certainly don't understand.

In a Spec Miata, you learn to go fast. There's no power to mask the mistakes you make from your braking point to your clipping point. Plus, the fields in SM run so close, you're forced to learn to pedal quick.

After success in a SM, you can go fast in just about anything.

 

Weight distribution issues are typically resolved with a rework of the nut behind the wheel.

 

Relax, my friend. Everyone's a nut behind the wheel. Myself included. And I don't believe in "emoticons"; they're a crutch for poor communication.

As for the topic at hand, Peter's right. There's nothing like a proper race car. No production-based car can ever compare to a purpose-built race car.

That said, I'll leave you with this tidbit of information. On track, the driver's job is to adapt. Track conditions change, tire temperature changes, fuel loads change, the weather changes, so a driver has to adjust his inputs to compensate. Extrapolate that notion across driving different cars over one's driving career and it becomes the driver's responsibility to adapt to different cars with a range of weight distributions and unique handling characteristics. Personally, I don't care whether I'm driving a front-wheel-drive, pig-nosed wonder or a 911, my job is to make it go fast.

 

I have owned and raced Porsches (993 RSR, 996 CUP) but by far the most exciting is my Radical SR3. Gobs of down force, nearly 3 Gs in some corners, and neck snapping acceleration...nothing else has come close. Although I do track a Lotus Elise, and I think it is the best street-able track day car I have ever had. Just bought a 360, but do not plan to do serious tracking with it...it's art.

 

I'm a little rusty, but I was racing Fiat 124 Sport Coupes in B Sedan against Datsun 510s, BMW 2002s and a sea of other typicals back in the early/mid 70s. I graduated to a Nissan 300ZX Turbo and ran in the IMSA Firehawk Series, as well as running a Mazda RX7 in the 24 hours of Daytona, all in the mid 80s. I finally realized I wasn't the lucky sperm by my 30s and came to the conclusion that I was just another driver amongst many aspiring individuals trying to make it to the big time. I gave it up, convincing myself that it was too much work to run a full season in any professional series where you own and operate your own team. No question purposeful race cars are a different ball game. The entertainment factor for me, was watching the Want-a-Bees with more car than talent. But I'm old now and the memories are fond. So reading your guy's responses sparks some interest for me. The Sports 2000 cars with the Pinto 2000 motor are ultra quick for what they are. The Sport 2000 was a brand new class when I was running B Sedan. The Sports 2000 is really an Under 2.0 liter Can Am car, less the Cosworth. Sorry for the hijack, as you were...

 

I love love love the new goodyears! Especially in the rain!

Spec Racer Fords and Spec Miatas are the two best cheap cars to run. ZO6's not so much. The brakes absolutely SUCK!! If your serious about having a ZO6 as a track day car the FIRST thing you need to do is call Stop-Tech and upgrade the brakes.

 

Hi Matt,

Since you said track car, i assume you do not plan to wheel to wheel race. It is great you have a physical degree and have tracked various cars in the past. So on that note a Radical. Of course after a few years tracking the Ferrari it got old/tired/boring. You know what i mean. My choice was going inexpensive and so a Formula 2000 (Formula Continental) was chosen with the aid of guys here who helped in narrowing down things. Then again i wanted to RACE and just just ho-hum around during HPDE days.

The FC is a blast, with 2.5G+- turns and ok acceleration. It is not as capable as a Radical in sheer speed, yet the lower costs ($20k for FC verses $60k for Radical) and total cost of ownership has been relatively reasonable. Add to that, can race on regional and National SCCA events. Also, the FC allows me to LEARN MORE about suspension and aero tuning and adjusting the car and changing the gears in the tranny. She is a geat learning car for sure!

Remember, any car you track is a total and complete write off. Things happen at the track so this is a 100% DISPOSABLE venture.

Have fun, BE SAFE and enjoy the ride.

PS: if you want to see some videos (not my best laps, i prefer to leave my competition guessing about my REAL capabilities and braking points) see www.EnjoyTheTrack.com

PPS: my next toy will probably be a Radical. Perhaps next year as secured 2nd place in SCCA driver's championship for regional NER/ NAARC last year (as a rookie) and when i get #1 this year i may move onward. The FC is already getting kinda slow(!) yet need to learn a few more things before the next level. No need to get a car that if far beyond my capabilities. baby steps, baby steps.

 

Best kept secret in racing;
Tube frame Formula Mazda. Cars are equal, reliable, engines dont explode on over-revs and dont need rebuilds for years yet remain competitive. Easy to set up ( you dont end up chasing your tail ).Tires are the only expensive operating cost for full out racing or learn on others discards for free. Not the prettiest car to look at, technology is older, but bang for the buck; this is where its at.
Full data acquisition on most. $20K gets you a good car.

 

Matt, the Radical and the Juno are two completely different cars. The Radical is a near-decade old tube-frame design that was originally envisioned as a track day car, a car that was eventually adapted for racing outside it's original one-make series. The Juno is a purpose-built racing car designed to the European CN "small prototype" sports racing class, which hosts a number of other manufacturers (Lucchini, Tampolli and the new Lola B07/90) and usually uses engines of either 2-liter or 3-liter displacement. Big difference between the two. The Radicals are generally small displacement (1 liter, 1.3 liter, 1.5 liter) although they've tried their hand at larger cars up to and including LMP2 with the small V-8 and turbo motors.

I think the Radicals are rugged, simple and safe, but they are not suitable for top-flight competition which is why they are so popular for "track-day" cars.

I think the Juno is a work of art, a clone of the bigger LMP sports prototypes with absolutely state of the art technology, but you better have the budget to match if you're going to prep it properly and run it well.

 

Dale, the Spec Racer Ford is a terrific class and the best cars are available for around $16K-$20K. They are tube-frame cars with a sealed Ford of more modern vintage mated with an automotive production based transaxle mounted transversely. Most of the components other than the frame are adapted from road cars and not the bespoke pieces built specifically for racing cars, like the Sports 2000. The racing is very, very good. The bodywork is heavy-duty and needs to be, as it is a very physical series. The cars also are designed to work with DOT-R (Competition, treaded) tires as opposed to slicks, offering greater life with supposedly lower operating costs. In short, they are heavier, less complicated, less expensive to own and maintain than a Sports 2000 or it's fenderless equivalent, FF2000 better known as Formula Continental.

The top lap times tell the story best.

VIR Full (3.27 miles) (times are about the same times as Watkins Glen 3.4-mile course)
1-liter Radical 1:59.9
Sports 2000, 1:58.9
Formula Continental 1:56.5
Spec Racer Ford, 2:14.0
Spec Miata 2:20

And yes, I believe you can have as much fun in a Spec Miata as you can in a Formula Continental!

 

+1

 

Is this FE (SCCA Enterprises Mazda open wheel wined car)? If so, they are a lot more like $40k last i checked.

Am surprised you guys are suggesting a tintop-like Miata to a guy who has driven a Z06.

 

you are so dead on. In fact not only are there more go fast goodies than you can possibly imagine being made in the aftermarket but you can be cheap like a miata and go fast like a vette because you can buy good condition street C5 vettes for around 12-15k! If you are clever you can sell the street parts for a few bucks and get that cost of entry even cheaper. What Pbugs have is the PCA POC network for clubracing. Vettes etc. only have local clubracing with mixed non-competative mixed fields and some classes in SCCA and NASA.

 

Nope, Steven. Lightguy is talking about the "Star" Mazda, introduced over a decade ago. Still a reasonably quick and winged car, very rugged and simple to own and maintain.

Now, of course, there is the new "Pro" Formula Mazda with a composite monocoque and the Renesis rotary engine. Those are more expensive than anything we're talking about here, midway between used Ralt RT-40/41 and the Swift 008a Atlantics.

The Formula Enterprises (FE) car is a Van Diemen (oops, Elan Technologies) design with the 2.3 liter Ford (oops, Mazda-built in Mexico) Duratec. That car is mid-$30K-$40K for a fair example, better looking but not very much quicker than a Star Formula Mazda (FM).

Then, of course, there is Dedicated Stohr Racing (DSR) , but we won't talk about that. I'll just get too worked up...

This is why SCCA is such a mess. Too many classes, too much confusion...

 

A brand new tube frame FM is at 40k. An equal used one about half. No one is buying new ones.

The Carbon Fibre car is like 80k. A different world. Not the place to start.

Spec Miata is a great class and is a best choice for production cars. Theoretically they are a spec class so to be fast you have to be a good driver. Not the guy with the most bucks. Again theoretically.