at least... ;)
Are you saying these auction prices are inflated? $169K does seem high for non-red Cali with 8K on the clock.
Essentially, yes. The true wholesale value is what the seller at the dealer auctions paid. After all, they wouldn't be selling at the auction if they weren't making money The dealer auctions such as Manheim, are quasi-retail. As Absent (correctly) pointed out, the prices at those sales are inflated over true wholesale because there are thousands of dealers across North America viewing the lots and in most cases, everyone has "a guy"... This pushes the prices over actual wholesale and towards retail. In the example you provided, the 8k Cali that sold for $169 was probably transported ($1k) and then "flipped" to an end-user for ~$175...
only sort-a maybe. I have sold 4 $100k+ cars over the last 36 months and every time the dealers used Manheim auction pricing. They literally popped up the auction results and that was that...(with the occasional exceptions)... The reality is that the wholesale value for a RED/ Tan decent optioned 2010 California with less than 10k is around $165-173..maybe $175. The retail on the same car would be as close to $189 that a buyer would be willing to pay. NOT including the dealers time, overhead, recon fees (if any) auction fees, sales commissions...etc most independents will want to make at least $10k gross margin. AT A FERRARI STORE that same car would cost $5-7k more. Excluding a warranty. Where is my info coming from? We JUST bought a 2010 California. I shopped the snot out of the deal with 2 of the largest Ferrari dealers and 2 of the largest high end independent dealers on the west coast. The franchise dealers were on average $10-15k over what appeared to be the same car at an independent. If you are wanting to sell consider consigning WITH a franchise dealer...I have had exceptional luck with Ferrari San Diego.
I am just amazed with the unbelievably (vs any other high line car) high resale values of used Californias,regular production cars after all and not even superior to some other makes available at that price range. I guess I'm still smarting after my Scuderia adventure back in 2008......
I just sold my Scuderia. Brilliant car. But, way too A to A for me. Ended up not using it as intended. For reference. A less than 5k 09 Scud is worth almost exactly wholesale/ retail as a 10 California!
A to A is an automotive term that basically means you leave your house...drive the car...and return to your house. An A to A car sucks for anything other than track use, Sunday drives or the occasional short run around town. A to B car would be a car that can do the A to A thing AND be a long distance driver or a Daily Driver.
Interesting. A CS is certainly an A to A car too...Cali and 458 and the post 550 v12s would all be A to B cars. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think you may be even unhappier with the price in another year. If you want the 458 take the trade-in
I have other A to A cars that scratch that itch. Vintage Porsches. Don't misunderstand...I love Scuderia's and wouldn't rule out getting another one.
To add to this thread I believe the 430 competes with the Cali. You can buy a late model low mileage 430 in the 140-150 range which will continue to pull down the price of the Cali. Some would argue it is a better looking car and the performance is negligible.
my 2010 has nearly 25k miles (yes i drive it a lot) and i know im going to get creamed when i trade her for a new one. the only person i saw on these boards with mileage like mine was Rick's car with 29k mi. rick , do you mind sharing what kind of trade in value you got when you traded yours
When I ordered my 2013 in december (now due in in the next 3 weeks) I was told 180 to 185 for my 2011 which is red and fully equipped (244 orig retail) with 7500 miles. I now expect when I pick it up the price will be a little less 175 to 180. (factory warranty till july 2014) I would expect 20K less for identical 2010 then with high mileage maybe 145 to 150 .
I would disagree because these are very different car ideas that become obvious as soon as you get in and go for a drive. Ferrari does not make car models that fully compete with each other - they make very few cars and it would not be sensible. The California exists for a special reason that no other current Ferrari fulfills. Yes, both cars have V8 engines but they are in different locations for very good reasons that Ferrari fully understands. It does not just depend on price. While I love the handling of the 430, it was way too loud for me to use as a daily driver. My heart was broken. Mid-engine cars are really track cars and you drive them elsewhere only if you have next to no luggage, can tolerate and survive the constant noise level and stiffer ride. Whereas the California are multi-dimensional GT cars, not track cars, you can switch from the Ferrari sound track to having it very docile, tool around at 1500 RPM, 7th gear and smooth ride... and the hardtop convertible gives you a fantastic-looking coupe along with a purpose-designed convertible, effectively 2-cars-in-1. Someone who buys the 430 for daily use not knowing what a mid-engine Ferrari is about is likely to regret it. People buying the wrong cars are not at all a good thing for used car values. I would love to have a weekend 1-hour driver in addition to an everyday GT but my urban home does not have 3 garages and I would miss my truck too much!
i agree: most califorina owners use their vehicle as a dd with less concern of the accrued mileage. owners of mid-engine f-cars tend to drive them less, on short distance runs, on a sunny day.
Any data to validate that most California owners use them as DD? Frankly, here in Chicago, i see more 430s than california driving around. I know that the Californias are being used as DD but i am not sure that most of them are DD. Also, It doesnt really matter that the Cali and F430 are different in what they offer. If they are worth around the same, a lot of potential buyers will consider both (Lots of thread here asking about 430/Cali/599).
Well, I'm so sure. AutoTrader in Canada lists 44 F430s in Canada starting at $115k for a 2005 Berlinetta, $139k for a 2005 Spider. It lists 18 Californias starting at $166k. But this may also explain why you see more people driving F430s in Chicago because as you pointed out, a lot of potential buyers (on Fchat?) shop by price and perhaps are also more interested in just being noticed. The F430, with its race car looks is a much better attention magnet than a California. It's an incredible bargain if you're not bothered about noise levels in daily driving. The F430 convertible was my first choice. As for people looking at the 599, I suspect they are more knowledgeable. There are 10 cars listed on AutoTrader Canada starting at $185.9k. Maintenance on a V12 is significantly more complicated and more expensive than compared to that on a V8. Gas consumption is usually higher as well... especially important if budget is the only deciding factor.
you could look up mileage reported all the used 2010 cali's listed on auto trader. and then obtain the same data for used 458's. you could then calculate the average mileage of each group. i have not done the math. my impression is via simple observation and speaking with my salesman at the local dealership.
Don't want to irritate anyone but....just wait until Ben Bernanke and his friends stop throwing free money at the economy, and rates start ticking up - then we'll all see some serious depreciation on all supercars. The quantities produced during the last 15-20 years are unprecedented due to the credit bubble. Who's going to buy them all?? The chinese...? Just asking.. Buy whatever you can afford and regard it as a "keeper".
I do not see that very many people would be considering a 430 vs a California. I for one considered a 430 for about the length of time it took to test drive a california then (I had frequent access to a 430 prior to buying a california) .. THe california is totally different car and far more up to date. Now california vs 458 that makes sense. Now this is just my thoughts as my buddy wanted me to buy his 430 prior to buying my california and it was not even a thought. I use my california for a limited DD and besides i think the op asked the trade in value of his 2010 california. just my 2c
Wouldn't economics tell us that "free money" inflates the value of real assets? I think your logic is backwards...
They are different but there are similarities. For myself regardless of cost I would prefer the rawness of the 430. If I could I would have both, the Cali does seem more refined and would probably be an awesome DD.