Tragedy @ Lime Rock

To play a bit of devil's advocate here, let's not blow one accident out of proportion. Historic and Vintage racing rarely suffer fatalities, which would indicate that their practices, policies and procedures work pretty well. Maybe not in each and every circumstance, but I'm not sure one very rare incident warrants an entire review, either. Generally, IIRC, the tech session on an open cockpit car will check to see if the helmet is below the roll-hoop-to-nose line. It looks to me like the driver extended above that line a bit. But, even if they don't, they're still exposed.

And, to the extent that the drivers are choosing to get into something as relatively exposed as that car is, they assume a certain amount of liability, too.

There simply may be no way to make these old(er) cars as safe as today's, so if we want to continue to see open-wheeled, open-cockpit cars whizzing around, we need to view this for what it was: a rare incident.

CW

 

For a bit of perspective, this is the first fatality at the Lime Rock Historics and they've been running them under one name or another since the seventies.

 

This is the 32nd year of the Historic Festival. The last VSCCA fatality was 1986 at Pittsburgh. There are more health related cardiac events that result in fatalities than ANY other single cause. I've seen about a dozen fatalities at the 750 vintage races I've attended or competed in over the last three decades. Pretty good stats, if you ask me.

Barton, the group DOES have a car classification and safety rules. Had them since 1959. Longer than any of the pro sanctioning bodies that you're familiar with. It also has insurance cover and over 900 members. No danger of that changing. Sorry to disappoint.

It's a choice. Most folks drive with a margin reflecting their additional vulnerability. This was an accident. A shame. And it cast a pall over the event, for sure.

 

I was not at Lime Rock, but have been at races where drivers were killed or nearly killed. The feeling it gives you in the pit of your stomach is just sickening. Wouldn't wish it on anyone. I can empathize with those who were there.

My deepest condolences go to the driver's friends and family. I'm not always sure if "died doing what he loved" is much consolation, but I hope they can at least take some solace in that. I do understand the sentiment.

The comments here (save one, which ironically begins with "Forgive me....") have been excellent, much more so than many other threads. To that one, I would just say, if you have to start your comment with "Forgive me...." (I'll bet the family doesn't), maybe you just shouldn't be making the comment at all. Food for thought.

gp

 

Just appalling. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

Thank you, John...thank you, very much.....

R.I.P.

My own father, was 74.
Perhaps, John H., that's why we play hard!!!

Hope to see you soon.

 

That thought DID cross my mind....never been there, but seen the movie.

 

Ya gotta go Tex.

 

It's my FAVORITE track... Bar none.

 

I think most people simply misunderstood the post.
If I crash my exotic sports car on the racing circuit and lose my life at 73 years old, the last thing I would want would be my friends hanging their heads and calling it a tragedy. They should be having a celebration of my long, full life!

Now, to rot away from bed sores in a nursing home for years and years - now THAT'S a tragedy!

 

Really? hmmmmm...I must be missing something

 

I was there when it happened. There is no upside. As on Sunday they were setting up funeral arrangements for a man who had just left the pits was to be out about 15 minutes then, come back in a check the tire pressure. No thought of a disaster. It was just too brutal to even want to photograph the area 20 minutes later. You just stand back and pray.
I have been around the pits since the 60's growing up, and the feeling is a huge hole in your gut. And usually a buzzing in the ears and the thousand mile stare. I feel very sorry for his family, as the fun is over and the funeral is the final of all finals procedures. They will have to deal with this, instead of enjoying the warm weather and laughing, thinking about next year.
A loss of this magnitude can never be written in words.
I don't feel too good right now thinking about what happened..............

 

Could you tell us why you posted this comment?

 

While LRP has a lot of good history, I agree that it's not my favorite track, either. Aside from the whole omni-present CTHP issuing tickets in the paddock thing. Which can only be compared to Roebling Road's enforcement of local noise ordinances! Really? Move next to a race track and complain about noise?

But, it has technical elements and the pucker factor (at the uphill, we're getting front-wheels off and very light in the rear and T10 is a must-get-correct). We had so much spring and shock compression on T10 that the body panels were rubbing the surface.

CW

 

Tickets in the Paddock??

For WHAT???

 

As a spectator I love the track, can't speak to it as a driver.
The accommodation that Lime Rock has reached with its ecclesiastical neighbor is a model for other venues. Giving Sunday over to quieter pursuits works well for both sides of Lime Rock Rd.

 

I don't object to that at all. However, the more modern cars require considerable warm-up time before going out. This warms the engine, transmission, water and lubricants. Historically, we'd just crank it up, let it idle at a low(er) rpm, blip it and then shut it down. Regrettably, straight pipes on race cars are loud. Today, the most modern cars have plug-in, external systems for this purpose and are much quieter. But, honestly, I always like the way the paddock awakened in the mornings: from the crews opening the tents and trailers, the dew dripping off cars and canopies, the cars cranking over and blowing smoke, to drivers meetings, bad coffee and donuts and the rest of it.

So, at places like LRP, there is a short(er) period to warm things up, due to the fact that the faster groups tend to go out on track first. I always felt that was one of the most illogical practices. I mean, the track, cars and drivers are cold. There's no need to put them out first in the morning and at risk. I've seen a LOT of spins in those first sessions. Some of which end up with some bent sheet metal or worse. Seems unnecessary to me, but I assume there's an untold purpose.

CW

 

Interesting. Thanks.
Perhaps someone more familiar with the track will comment.

 

it is an oval with one left turn....

 

Well, that's true, of course.

CW

 

People are jumping all over David on this, and I hear what they are saying, but when i read his post I didnt take it as an intentionaly callous comment. Thought long and hard about posting so as not to get caufght up in an attack. But to me looks more like a semantic arguement here.

I would say a loss of life while racing is certainly tragic. But we also tend to debase words in the modern world by overuse. In racing the possibility of death is expected, its not the same type of tragedy as say a school bus collision resulting in death, or a young child dying from cancer, maybe these days we have tragic and epicaly tragic. Also if you are an active and willing participant in a dangerous activity that results in your own quick death its a tragedy for your family but not really a tragedy like a bunch of innocents just get caught in the twin towers, maybe thats epic tragedy. Is base jumpers death the same thing as a child gettign shot, many would argue that if youa re base jumping and chute does not open you were sorta askign for it. And many say the same thing about those of us who drive on the track.

As racers though we tend to be more sensative to vehicular death from speed than the public at large.

Or perhaps the sentiment being expressed is that if any of us get to go out in full force with a bang in our 70's that is somewhat preferable to laying in your own feces as an altzheimers patient, therefore arguably tragic but not a tragedy, hard to say where the line/age is there. In that context the crash and death was tragic but not a wholescale tragedy. At least that is the way I took the comment.

Of course Nelson Rockefeller having a massive heart attack with his secretary on top presumably at the moment of climax is really the way to go, certainly a tragedy for his family and an untimely unexpected death, but...

That all being said thrown from your car on to the asphalt, not a good way to go no matter what or where, hopefully it was quick. And yeah those of us with track experience are freaked out because we know when it goes wrong things happen very rapidy and it does not matter how "talented" you think you are, when the wheels come off you are mostly along for the ride, wherever that goes, and it can happen to any of us.

So yeah we dont like to talk about it, just say prayers.

Some might say that driving a prewar car with little to no protection is dangerous, others think driving any car on the track is needlessly dangerous, and they have less sympathy for us in an accident than say a mother getting run over while crossing the street. Just as many of us dont necessarily blame Tony Stewart for what happened, you know ward was walking on the track.

Or maybe we have convinced ourselvs that we practice our track craft in a "safe" manner so we see any track death as epicaly tragic because we dont want to believe it can happen. And hopefully it never does again.

 

People are so damn touchy. I read David S's comment right after he posted it. It's a perspective that deserves some consideration. I respect him for that wisdom, whether I agree with him or not. This is something I encounter often on FChat and its one of the reasons I keep coming back.

 

I'm very sorry to hear of this man's death and the loss for his family.

In my 20 years in vintage racing, the score is 2-2. That is - two men literally drove into the pits after a race, shut the engine down, and died. Two others are still alive and kicking BECAUSE of racing and the physicals they were forced to take. Both men were asymptomatic with serious heart problems requiring open heart surgery.

 

Its what I always tell the wife, the racing and driving keeps you alive and sharp. Its better to LIVE than exist.

 

I could not agree with you more - this does not mitigate the tragedy but one of the Andrettis who is a close personal friend, told me after a friend of his was killed racing several years ago that "at least he died doing what he loved" - I had a little trouble getting my head around that for a while but the more i ran the track the more I understood and totally agreed with him - of course that does not make a death less tragic but it makes it easier to understand