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Transmission Heat Exchanger Replacement

Discussion in '360/430' started by English Rebel, Jul 4, 2014.

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  1. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #1 English Rebel, Jul 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I got my car back from Foreign Cars Italia yesterday after having the transmission heat exchanger replaced as a precautionary measure. They also replaced the intake manifold gaskets. The old HE is in extremely good condition considering the age. No signs of corrosion and the oil passageways look clean and open. I haven't done a pressure test but will do before putting it up for sale.
    On driving home I noticed that the car seemed to have more get up and go. Not sure if that was due to the fact that the old intake gaskets may have been leaking but it was certainly noticeable.
    Alan
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  2. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

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    #2 Mozella, Jul 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
    Congratulations, your old one looks great. Others have posted photos with a lot of scale and/or corrosion on the water side and horrible goo on the oil side.

    Can you tell us a bit about the history of your car, especially something about what transmission oil has been used how often it's changed, etc. and what coolant you use, change intervals, etc.?
     
  3. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #3 vrsurgeon, Jul 4, 2014
    Looks great... now why did you change it out again? ;)
     
  4. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

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    #4 mike01606, Jul 4, 2014

    LOL!

    Alan,

    Is there any date coding obvious on the unit? I can't see anything on the spec plate.

    It could have been replaced already! ;)


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  5. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #5 English Rebel, Jul 4, 2014
    Mike
    I changed it because according to the service history that I have in hand (there may well be other services that I am not aware of) the transmission oil and coolant where changed in 2004 at 10k miles and in 2011 at 21k miles. Now looking at its condition I think that there are intermediate services that I don't have documentation for. I don't know what brand was used as the service records don't indicate that.
    Alan

    Curt
    See above. I have no regrets in having this done as it now shows me that the vehicle was serviced on a regular basis -- which before I was not too sure of. If the transmission oil was only changed twice in its 15 year -- 26k mile life I would have expected it to look like the one that FerrariDublin removed and cut open.
    Alan
     
  6. voicey

    voicey Formula 3

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    #6 voicey, Jul 4, 2014
    Are you sure they didn't just give you back the brand new part? You know how much these workshops like to scam people! ;)

    On a serious note, did they take any pictures of the old intake manifold gaskets?
     
  7. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #7 English Rebel, Jul 4, 2014
    Mike
    No date code at all.
    Alan

    Aldous
    Now I know there are some scam artistes out there but when the original superseded part number is on the label I think they were honest. :) :)
    Sorry I didn't think to ask about the intake gaskets as they were really incidental to the job -- one of those "well, while you're in there" type of things and I didn't have any CELs or symptoms of air leakage but as I said there was a notable difference. I took off in first gear and it was like -- whoa let's not exceed 4000 RPM okay.
    Alan
     
  8. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
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    #8 mello, Jul 4, 2014
    come on guys, don't rain on his parade. I'm happy that you did it, Alan. Many returns with good health!
     
  9. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #9 vrsurgeon, Jul 4, 2014
    I'm just fooling with you Alan. To add some spice to the mix.. is there any evidence that this intercooler will last? Any studies or use over time? hehehehe :)
     
  10. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #10 English Rebel, Jul 4, 2014
    I know you guys are pulling my chain and at my age I can take it. ;)
    I'm going to do a long term evaluation of the new heat exchanger but I think it will out live me. :)
    Alan
     
  11. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

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    #11 mike01606, Jul 4, 2014

    Me too ;)

    Tongue in cheek mode on.....

    I think strengthens my manufacturing quality theory. It looks like the 99 batch are the good ones!
    But what about the 2014 batch? I've heard they're good for at least 12 months :)

    In fairness Alan well done to you!...... A lot of people will feel better about theirs tonight.


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  12. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #12 Ricambi America, Jul 4, 2014

    ... having met Alan personally, I'm pretty sure this is true. He's like 114 years old. But he only looks 97, so its all good.
     
  13. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #13 English Rebel, Jul 4, 2014
    Thanks Daniel -- no more All Star game hockey caps for you. :)
    Alan
     
  14. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
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    #14 mello, Jul 4, 2014
    the extra bonus is the recouped HP due to the new runner gaskets. Well done! :)
     
  15. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

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    #15 FerrariDublin, Jul 4, 2014
    Wow, the unit taken out appears to be in great shape.

    There's a lot less tubes through that older model than there is on the update replacement. Arguably there's less cooling going on but the upside would be that the oil ways are more clear and allow greater flow of the oil.

    Nice to put the worry behind you for several years anyway and by the sounds of it the cars running great too. Win / Win!
     
  16. London

    London Karting

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    #16 London, Jul 5, 2014
    When was the old version (p/n 175913) superseded by the new one (p/n 180846)?
     
  17. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

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    #17 mike01606, Jul 5, 2014

    Greg, I didn't notice it has a less tubes. There's also a lot let joints to fail......maybe this type was the one to have but only the pro's could answer that......


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  18. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #18 vrsurgeon, Jul 5, 2014
    It would also appear the tubes are aluminum and not copper....
     
  19. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

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    #19 mike01606, Jul 5, 2014

    And probably fitted to all the 355's?


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  20. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #20 English Rebel, Jul 5, 2014

    Remind me why you had to change out yours. IIRC there was a lot of sludge and it was leaking but I don't remember why -- lack of fluid changes?
    Alan

    Daniel at Ricambi can probably answer that.
    Alan

    Curt
    Yes they are -- in fact the whole unit is made from aluminum which is probably why there is no corrosion. If the correct coolant was used (for an all aluminum engine) and it was changed regularly then there should not be any corrosion. The tubes appear to be swaged on the ends to lock them into the header pates -- no welding.
    Alan
     
  21. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

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    #21 Mozella, Jul 5, 2014
    You're correct about the welding, if by that you mean some Chinese kid sitting at a welding table with a tiny Mig welder. However this heat exchanger (and similar units made from aluminum) is almost certainly brazed in an oven at around 600 C.
     
  22. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

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    #22 English Rebel, Jul 6, 2014
    I'll look at it again to see if there are any signs of brazing but to my (albeit limited) knowledge aluminum is not brazed (and aluminum melts at 600 degrees C).
    Alan
     
  23. BSU

    BSU Formula 3

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    #23 BSU, Jul 6, 2014
    Interesting, but I do not understand how that would work.

    Extra ooomph is always welcome.
     
  24. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

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    #24 FerrariDublin, Jul 14, 2014
    Ultimate cause is unknown but lack of fluid changes seems a distinct possibility. I bought the car as a nine-year-old and while it had been dealer maintained there wasn't anything in the service records to specifically confirm that the gearbox oil or coolant had ever been changed. I had flushed both twice in the two/three years I owned it prior to the failure so if it was lack of changes it's not something you can "undo" and rectify (like replacing overdue timing belts for example).
     
  25. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

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    #25 Mozella, Jul 14, 2014
    Aluminum is brazed all the time. It's a very common method of assembly for devices like heat exchangers. Even home hobbyists can braze aluminum with inexpensive tools.

    Here's a video you might find educational: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EItxo3rkFpU]Aluminium brazed heat exchanger - YouTube[/ame]

    It features a plate-fin heat exchanger. The shell-and-tube type are also commonly brazed, but I couldn't immediately locate a youtube reference.
     

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