Transmission issues need help

I have 1999 360 f1 I have been chasing my tell for months, going to a dealer is not an option I'm in small city with no ferrari dealers now the issue is the car drives great in the city for the first 45min then when it gets really hot I will get the f1 error and it wont shift I can hear the pump trying but no go even when i reset with the paddles the option is to let seat for a bit to cool off then I can shift again I bout a tool to check the codes ms908p but was not able to access the tcu module so last time this happened a few days ago I connected the scanner to it since the light was on and sure enough I was able to connect to the tcu I attached some pictures with the errors. The things I have tried already are f1 motor and I'm using a regular 40amp relay also changed the water pump because of bearings noise also wondering if there is readings on the clutch left on the pictures anyway an input is appreciated thanks
Stan
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1999 f1 is in a different league than later years, unless you have a later transmission control unit.
if your f1 motor sounds weird , it only means one of 2 things,
1. its going to fail soon
2. fluid is too little. ( u can check by open the fluid reservior and take a look if there's fluid there, like 1/3 or half in there, its fine then.)

if your f1 motor is failing, and its running too hot, it wouldn't pump pressure into the system. and no pressure means no shift and the red light would be on.

since ur said ur replaced ur pump, that probably means the fluid is too little. do you see any external leak? u have to remove a few things to see the whole picture

the "wheel turn" is your abs sensor, which doesn't affect your gear change operation in my knowledge. engine revolution and gearbox output is your concern, i'd think its the clutch and flywheel doesn't cooperation too well. I am not a pro but thats where i'd start. if its my car, id put in a later transmission control unit and set the PIS(which isn't available in your 1999) and start from there. pump relay is your concern as well . one thing you can check is to go to the rear right of your car and let the car idle and listen to the pump's running frequency, if it runs every 1-2min, its fine, that code is just a fluke, i may guess, or a historical code not to worry too much. BUT, big but, the relay could be bad and that could be your single issue causing all this! as other people would say, its really not ideal to identify problem on the internet and i don't buy it a few years ago, but as years passing by, i would more inclined to the same mentality.

can you find an independant shop around u? its not uncommon for people to find a place 300 miles away. owning a ferrari is sometimes not a good experience.

 

Clutch is at about 50% worn based on the current and new closed values IF they are accurate.

 

The PIS value is off.

 

Thanks guys for your input so far, when I open the door when cold the pump primes for about 13sec and with the engine off I can select through the gears up down and it I'll top up every 2nd gear up to 6th and down on cold the resovar is about half full i will look for leaks or attempt to bleed through the 2 bleeders, would a tcu from a 2001 part 185301work to program?

 

If you're going to install a newer TCU, I suggest at least a 2003 because its as close to a CS TCU as you can get without paying the CS price (assuming that you can find one).

 

Meaning? Can it be turned on I can do a re-scan the problem is after I reseted and drove home I can no longer access the tcu the scanner looks for different versions but does not keep any just the other modules or does the car has to be running to be able to detect and read

 

PIS stands for Point of Initial Slippage. Unfortunately for an 1999 TCU, the PIS adjustment is a manual process that has to be done by a mechanic. On my 2003 Spider TCU, I simply hook it up to a diagnostic unit and instructs the TCU to change the PIS value to whatever I want it to be. Yours is at 5.75 which is too high and causes the clutch to slip. Typically should be around 4.30 give or take a few 0.10mm.

 

Did a re-scan and I was able to connect to the tcu and the codes that I cleared before are stil there and sure you are correct pis doest record to the module I have the option to write on the scanner and goes through the steps of changing the pis and says complete but when you look at live data still says 5.47

 

I very much doubt PIS and clutch wear are anything to do with your problem. With it’s original TCU my car drove perfectly with a PIS of >6.
Something is happening when the car/F1 system warms up and it needs some proper diagnosis. All I can suggest is first watch the clutch position and system pressure when you have the problem. It should maintain the pressure and the clutch position should move towards 10 as the clutch opens. If that is OK your clutch is opening and it is a heat related selection/engagement issue.
If the clutch doesn’t open properly your release bearing could be sticking or the hydraulic operation could be faulty.
Try to eliminate one thing at a time for the gear selection cycle.....Pressure, clutch open, selection, engagement, clutch close.....

Anything else is guesswork.

 

Went for a short drive and when I parked the car engine off scanned the modules and no codes are present took pictures of the clutch readings pis is 5.289 mm then turn the engine on and reading is around 11 also the pump reads at 52 and tops up at around 42 bar is it possible that the battery is causing all this issues I have noticed that when I charge it is at almost 13v then drops down to 12.4v and sometimes below all this happens within 30min of running the diagnostiscs
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Looks like your clutch is opening correctly with the engine running. If you can find the gearbox primary revolutions you can confirm it is fully open.
On my car the release bearing moves about 2mm away (value increases) from the flywheel when first or reverse is selected.
Now watch what happens to the selection and engagement travel readings as you select gears. Check they are consistent and note the value of each for each gear.
Repeat the above when you are seeing the issue to see if you can work out what is happening.

 

The gearbox primary revolutions its showing 0 with the engine on or off or engaging 1st or reverse pulled a few feet back and forward with no change still at 0
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Looks like your gear box input shaft speed sensor is on it's way out. Common issue and a cheap repair. Sensor I this is 200 bucks from ferrari.

 

It should definitely register RPM with the car moving and nothing in N with the engine running.
When the clutch is fully engaged it should match the engine revs.
Can your device graph the engine and clutch primary RPMs.

Just make sure your device refreshes quick enough to catch any change.

 

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A graph when I was running mine earlier this year.

 

I did a run on a bumpy road well I have no other choice and I will upload a video with the readings but it looks like the reason why it wasn't reading yesterday was because I was moving to slow and not far enough because i did same way today and did not read until i start moving a bit more to start reading the revolutions I drove it for about 10 min and it reads fine looks like its matching close to each other +- 200

 

View attachment 957521

 

After looking at some of the codes I started looking in to the cats upstream and noticed that right is reading and left is at 0 until I start driving then starts reading but very low should both be reading same?

 

Hi tbakowsky based on my last driving after an hour driving in the city it stopped again and i got 2 active errors "0940 gearshift switch lock" and "1708 gearbox output revolutions" f1 pump had pressure and prepping up to 50 bar I noticed that when stopped with the issue the gearbox primary revolutions was still reading in the 200's when should be at 0, do you still think that gear box input shaft speed sensor is the cause or POTENTIOMETER GEAR SELECTION COUPLING SENSOR or something else? thanks

 

If the car was reading an input speed while still and not creeping forward when you take your foot off the brake, then I would say that is your issue.

If the car creeps then I would suggest to have the PIS adjusted up and see how it reacts. Either way, replacing the sensor is not a waste of money. It is a common issue, and they do fail. Order it for a maserati QP and the price is cheaper. It's the same sensor
.

 

After replacing the
Transmission Electronic Sensor P/n 168729
I still have the issue went for a ride after aprox 45 min I was slowing down in to the parking lot and the car wouldn't shift from 3rd I was just rolling then died with the transmission red icon, plugged in the scanner I had p0300 and p0301 but by the time I connected to the transmission module it had reset itself the beeping was gone so no codes but still couldn't shift checked the transmission primary revolutions and even though I was stand still not moving was still reading 143 after trying to chang to reverse a few times the whining stopped the revolutions was at 0 then I could change gears again, what should I be looking in to that might be causing the issue?

 

Sounds like clutch drag - if so the PIS needs adjustment.

 

Ok guys the weather is finally warming up I have taken your advice and bought a used tcu 197533 from an 03 360 spider so I'll be installing it soon and wanted to make sure what's the best pis setting I should set because you have mentioned that my pis was to high, if 5.4 or 5.7 is too high should I set at 4.7 or set same as the old tcu also wondering if there is a way of importing the other driving settings or is the pis & new closed clutch position the only setting that can be set or whatelse can do to take advantage of this newer tcu thanks