Transmission Question

Hi, I bought a Stratos in late fall but since I wanted some work done on it before it got shipped to me, I only drove it for the first time yesterday. It was terrific, the only thing I was struggling with is downshifting from third to second. Regular heel and toe doesn't seem to do it when going hot into a corner and needing to downshift quickly under braking. It seems that in order to avoid crunching the gears I have to either downshift very slowly and deliberately or double declutch. Double declutching does wonders but since I haven't had to use it in the past I'm not yet good at it. The Stratos uses the Dino's engine and transmission so I figured you guys must know everything there is to know about the transmission and its peculiarities. Has anybody else had this issue? Is it normal, or a sign of worn synchros and/or bad driver?

Thanks in advance!

 

Worn synchro. What is it like the way up? I'm mean from 2nd to 3rd

 

2nd gear on the stratos, if it's like 2nd gear on the Dino, is notorious for not being a happy upshift, especially cold, and on downshift as well.

I don't recall EVER thinking I could shift 3-2, in a hurry, in anger, or in a pinch without risking a CRUNCH, and once we rebuilt the tranny, I tried to be extra careful with 2nd gear.

I seem to recall those synchros could be tough to come by. Has anyone of the multiple knock off guys gotten around to reproducing those yet?

D

 

That's why Lancia offered straight cut gears for competition. Shift up and down as quickly as you can!

Freeman

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mXgWWNJVdYA

 

Well, it looks like i need to learn to double declutch properly. A rally driver (he raced in period and continues to vintage rally) drove my car with me as a passenger and his shifts were super fast and smooth. He did double declutch every single time, though. Hopefully i didn't harm the transmission while figuring it out...

 

I also always double clutch - it has happened that people think I am misshifting.
After a while it becomes a habit, you'll do it even if the car doesn't really need it, mainly because it feels better, matching the revs makes a car driver smoother and it keeps the balance in the car when you attack a curve in anger.
Only real drawback is there seems to be a little more wear on the actuation mechanisms of the clutch; I do wear out items like a clutch cylinder or pedal bushings a bit sooner so it seems.

 

I've been rev-matching by heel and toe for so long that it's second nature. I guess I'll just have to add another step...

 

What trans fluid are you using?

 

Actually I don't know yet. The shop in Italy that looked it over and did all the work necessary replaced all fluids. I can ask them. Do you think it matters that much?

 

One of my friends who has a collection of vintage Ferraris and Dinos has been recommended to use Agip Rotra LSX 75W-90W Oil & Lubricants for Ferrari 250, 275, 330, 365, 400 & 412 - Superformance

He just received his oil and has yet to try it.

They say it makes a big difference. We haven't tried it yet to form an opinion. Maybe someone has tried it and can comment.

http://www.superformance.co.uk/parts/AGIP0525_PDS.pdf




Freeman

 

Yes.

 

Most comp Stratos gearboxes were helical gears. The straight cut boxes were really difficult to shift. That being said, there is a company that makes a straight cut gear set for the Stratos that is said to be much better (might be Colotti).

 

Gearbox oil plays a big part in how well these cars shift but they can only mask bad synchros so much. That said an oil that is too thin will crunch during gear changes no matter how good the box is. I personally use Red Line 75W90NS and it is generally regarded as one of the better if not the best oil for these cars. I would start with a good gearbox and transfer case oil change and see how the car shifts.

From a driving perspective these cars have slow gearboxes to start with. They just do not like to be shifted quickly and they require all kinds of rev matching tricks to really drive them smoothly. A blip in mid-shift during upshifts and exact heel and toeing and or double clutching makes a world of difference. For me it is actually so second nature that I have to concentrate to not do it. Having to pay for your own racing gearboxes teaches you fast

 

Thanks!

 

Yeah, I think that's the key - the gearboxes are slow. I hadn't had experiences with older boxes like this and was trying to drive it as if it were a much more modern car. All is good, though, it ends up being a more engaging drive if I have to double clutch on top of making sure it doesn't swap ends...

 

What I feel works for me is to shift with feeling and be deliberate. Don't rush it and take in all the mechanical and aural nuances. Kind of like the approach to playing a classical violin vs an electric guitar (stratovarius vs a statocaster).

Freeman

 

Working under the theory that the reason the Dino gearbox is difficult to get into second when cold is that the oil is too viscous until warm, I recently changed to Red Line MTL, which is a 70W-80 oil. It does seem to help, although I frequently skip second when accelerating during normal driving because these boxes are so close ratio you can just go to third. I really only use second when approaching a corner, at which time I double clutch.

I think all Italian trannies of this era have weak synchros compared to German or American boxes.