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True Cost Of Ownership - Aircraft

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by JM280z, Dec 26, 2021.

  1. JM280z

    JM280z Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2020
    316
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    Jake
    The cost model of a commercial operation is far different than GA private ownership: Internal maintenance or transient maintenance, bulk hangars or parking on ramp, 100 hrs, flying 50-150 hours/month, 18-22 year olds fresh out of school beating them up, etc. That’s not the question of this thread, hence why I “brushed it off.”

    I’m used for assessing safety and community culture. The community tends to respond to my presence differently than when feds come around. The culture of airports varies so much; people seem to self-segregate in the community that they fit or develop with the community. It’s quite interesting that each airport is different. I’d love to get some work in Alaska and see how that is! I’ve been used as expert witness in court and consulting for FSDO/NTSB investigations more times than I can count. Never has anyone asked me about cost/hour.

    The questions is:
    1) any GA small piston owners that have thoroughly tracked costs per hour?

    For some reason people came out like a brick wall once I persisted with the question as if I’m raining on their parade. I’ve been clear GA ownership is worth it for pride of ownership and convenience. However, many people do enter ownership from a financial reasoning whether to avoid rental costs or a parent buying a plane for a kid to do a commercial in. Never have I met someone who ended up happy who bought a plane to save money. I was hoping to have some real world data to share with people. But there seems to be a community consensus that this question is off topic.

    I brought up regulatory non-compliance because in my experience most, if not all, *intentional* non-compliance comes from avoiding costs. Overall, most non-compliance stems from ignorance. Hence why we’ve switched from violations to education.


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  3. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Why don't you tell us a bit more about your aviation experience, before you go attacking long time members? And about your aircraft ownership?

    You say your success speaks for itself, yet I have no idea who you are. For all I know, you are a teenager typing away in your mom's basement. It is Christmas break, after all.
     
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  4. JM280z

    JM280z Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2020
    316
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    Jake
    See, I’m biting the bait while you all are fishing for ad hominem. I guess I’m too arrogant to not respond, which i shouldn’t have and remained on topic.


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  5. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
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    Aug 8, 2009
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    Well, if your first sentence in your first post is accurate, then you got the expected results:

    “I’ve never met a private owner who truly tracks costs”
     
  6. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    The way you have framed the question with an emphasis on opportunity costs is just not something that most in GA care about, or will stop them from getting involved. It's that simple.
     
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  8. JM280z

    JM280z Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2020
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    Jake
    There are still people who track their mileage and gas prices on a notepad in their glovebox. I asked the question truly from a standpoint of curiosity on different people’s costs and in effort to have information to share with people who ask me about buying a plane.

    Sadly, I’ve been attacked for posing that question. I still stand by my statement that too many people buy planes to save money and it results in 1) angry wives/breaking budget, 2) plane sitting, 3) intentional non-compliance to save money. Hence, why I wanted real world numbers to share. Yes, numbers could be $100hr to $1500 hr depending on many variables. Hence why it’s an interesting question.


    Thank you for helping make Ferrari ownership affordable! FChat community is great.
     
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  9. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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    Since you won't tell us anything about who you are or what perspective you are starting from, I'm going to assume you are a teenager posting from your mom's basement. Happy new year! Back to school tomorrow?
     
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  10. JM280z

    JM280z Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2020
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    Jake
    Ad hominem for a man who has nothing else to contribute. Quite sad and telling actually.

    #1 - no one is going to share their personal info online
    #2 - you’re going to discredit whatever I say
    #3 - it’s irrelevant to my question

    Sorry I rained on your parade by merely asking a question. Funny how insecure some people are.


    Thank you for helping make Ferrari ownership affordable! FChat community is great.
     
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  11. JM280z

    JM280z Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2020
    316
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    Jake
    “Most in GA care about.” - I agree and never denied that.

    However, there are still plenty of people who chose to purchase a plane to save money. And at which point the many factors I discussed apply.

    This thread isn’t about if it’s worth it or not. It’s about actual costs. It seems everyone perceived my question as invalidating/attacking private ownership.


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  13. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    Apparently you don't realize that the 'issue date' shown in the FAA airmen registry has absolutely zero relationship to when a person actually got their license.
     
  14. JM280z

    JM280z Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2020
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    Jake
    Nah, I do. Not much to go on other than that. Could have been your IR or sea add on in 2007. Doesn’t change that you’re spewing non-sense that I’m wrong while on an expired medical. I doubt you don’t fly at night or flying <1320 lbs with proper LSA endorsements.

    I doubt you’ve never put a non-aviation nut, bolt, lock washer, etc on your plane. You probably do drive by annuals and/or have an A&P/IA buddy do signoffs for work you did.

    I brought up non-compliance because it often stems from cost savings. It was slightly off topic but I totally bit the bait to continue on that road. If you don’t have anything to contribute on topic, then just stop.




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  15. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    No problem. You know, it's not hard to make a budget for a GA aircraft. There is probably a community college near you which offers an intro to budgeting class...
     
  16. JM280z

    JM280z Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2020
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    Jake
    I’m not asking “how to budget” I’m asking for actual numbers from people who have kept track.

    I keep biting the bait but this is entertaining at this point. I suggest you learn to read and develop some critical thinking skills.

    This is such an issue in this country. Everyone gets so butt hurt and insecure when anything about them is questioned. People don’t know how to articulate their opinions or why they think a certain way. Sad how argumentative everyone is. Fortunately this isn’t political!


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  17. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    um no. Maybe you should familiarize yourself with past FAA procedures.
    Instead of suggesting that I am operating an aircraft illegally, although that seems to be your general opinion of GA pilots, maybe you should consider a more basic and simpler explanation.
     
  18. JM280z

    JM280z Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2020
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    Jake
    I did say, that I doubt you’re not flying based on your claims of being a 25 year pilot, living at an airport community, and active (and for some reason defensive) in this discussion. Also you’re bragging about convenience of flight as if you’re still doing it, not that it was 6 years in the past.

    I mentioned it because you said “ROFLMAO” to a serious issue in the GA community which often stems from ignorance. This should be an educational thread. I guess it still is, in a disappointing way.



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  19. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    Sorry for the interruption. By all means, please continue educating us.
     
  20. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Lurcker69 - 3 day ban, personal attacks on multiple members.

    Hopefully upon return will figure out how to be more sociable, or else next ban will be a lot longer.

    D
     
  21. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    As I read through this entire thread, there are some borderline personal attacks in here.

    Try a bit harder to stay on topic, and off each others' cases, or I'll have to come back and hand out some thread bans.

    Thanks for cooperating.

    D
     
  22. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior
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    Feb 13, 2017
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    Right in the middle
    #69 FSM348, Jan 2, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
    Wow, perhaps members with no intention of staying on topic to the OPs question should have refrained from adding unwanted and unnecessary input.

    The guy had a simple question, and was way more patient with keyboard warriors than I.
    My god, what is wrong with with some of you? Entertain the simple question or get your kicks trolling on Twitter. That’s where ****s belong anyways.

    J280z, happy holidays brother. Not all Fchatters are asshats. Cheers.
     
  23. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Who is Lurcker69?
     
  24. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
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    Jun 9, 2005
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    TL/DR
     
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  25. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Dave
    Long story short, appears to be a 2nd user ID for a user here. Looking into it with another mod.

    D
     
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  26. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    My first thought when I saw that the join date was yesterday.
     
  27. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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    Mar 21, 2004
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    Summary of mod actions: Lurcker69 account merged into the JM280z account for being a "sock puppet". Lurcker69 ban transferred to JM280z and extended to 1 week.
     
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  28. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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    Apr 30, 2005
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    This thread is bizarre. I'd say JCURRY, EastMemphis and donv were too patient and accommodating. Every time I wanted to post something useful (because I like talking planes, not to help out the entitled OP) I'd read another of this guy's insulting posts. Total turnoff and clearly not the expert he claimed to be. Creating an alter ego to like his own posts? LOL!

    I'm starting to think it might be time for FChat to start requiring real names for usernames.
     
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