All, I have read through several threads on 3x8 AC and they seem to have petered out without reaching a solid resolution. At this point I would be willing to give up my spare just to get modern levels of AC. Has anybody installed or investigated trunk mounted AC kits such as the ones from Vintage Air? http://www.vintageair.com/08/catalog08/08%20VA%20cat%20pg%2022%20f.pdf (This smaller unit looks slightly large at 23"x9.5"x12", but talking to vintage air they said that I could also install the GENII the same way which is much smaller) Thx, Brian
Brian, What kind of A/C problem do you have? Here on the East Coast (admittedly cooler but more humid than on the West) my A/C blows as cold as I need it.(?)
The AC is OK in cool to warm weather but in hot weather it's not even close. I have a black interior and when the sun is out and it's 100 degrees, the vents blow cool air on you, but not enough to cool the cabin. My 328 did a bit better, but that was still not good enough IMO. The short answer is that I don't want to sweat when driving; That mouse farting on the ice cube just isn't getting it done. Thx, Brian
I too have been reading many of these A/C threads trying to find the answer I need. I live between Los Angeles and Bakersfield and driving the car in the summer is really rough especially when youre talking about 117 degree temperatures! This past Sunday it was 107 in Castaic driving up the 5 freeway out of LA and with the top off I thought I was going to loose my lunch it was so hot! The A/C just won't even deal with that so I didnt bother with it. I bought my car two years ago, a 1983 308QV and it had just had a new compressor and recharge done, I'm assuming to R134. It blows cold at the vent but the cabin never cools. I have looked under the front hood and think I may do some work to the vent ducting as some of it seems to be restricted snaking through the brake booster and other plumbing. The fan seems to be moving the air well and I can feel the air blowing on me, but it's just not enough. I want to do some serious drives with my wife, but in order to go anywhere in Southern California or beyond you have to cross a desert to get out of here. This will just not fly unless we do all our driving at night! I would possibly consider run flat tires to loose the spare and install a system under the hood but would rather keep it stock if I can make it work. I have also considered ripping the entire system out from nose to tail and replacing it with a Honda system. I know many people here are puking as they read this, but I had a 2000 Honda Insight that we put 319,000 miles on. The system never needed service, blew so cold that even in the hottest of summer it would freeze you out and the car only had 69hp so it's super light on the drive train. But mostly that car had two HUGE glass windows laid flat much like the windshield on the 308. The back window is literally horizontal just as the roof. If that system can handle cooling that green house, it should handle a 308 which has a much smaller interior. Im also making insulated fiberglass panels to close off the under part of the dash board to keep the heat out of the cabin and I just read a thread of the guy doing his water lines from the front to the back and he put a valve in the heater water lines to turn them off in the summer. I think Im also going to pull the console and put heat deflection material in there as well as under the carpet. Anything to help bring interior temp down!
Interesting, that topic came up this past Saturday during our BBQ. To be honest, I've been following these threads for a long time. I don't think that a stock A/C system is ever going to work sufficiently in a Mondial Coupe; too much cabin and too much glass. The 400i had a dual system so that's what I'm thinking; supplemental a/c in the trunk and luggage in the spare tire well. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
This sounds like the Porsche 911 SC guys, same problem. I found this article interesting...http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/ac/ice/index.html Also, tinted windows, Add Extra insulation to the Cab, and the heater shut off valve is a very good idea. do you get 32-40 degree air now? Perhaps if you can optimize the system then that may help alot.
I was getting very low temp numbers last year when the car was in for service, can't recall what they were, but thats just at the vent.
It's a matter of totally revamping the system to rid it of all leaks........If you get rid of the old York compressor and go with Sanden, they are more efficient too...
Fchatter ultimatepedals has been working on a system redux. I PMed him the other day regarding this. He said he may have something ready by June... I have similar issues with my AC. It leaks down after about a year, plus the efficiency of the condenser is just not there in the brutal Houston summer months. I have considered going to a more efficient cooling fan (Hayden shrouded design rather than the Lucas, "blow air on everything but through the radiator" design). Also, I am looking at getting a larger evaporator blower motor. When my system is charged (I really need to find that slow leak!) the air temp is fine. Just not nearly enough volume. Fortunately, I'm not in a rush for the summer as I am away on a little trip, courtesy of Uncle Sam, for the next few (summer) months.... But I am looking to amass some parts for projects once I return. I plan on taking at least a month off to work on the car (and all the "honey-do's" I am sure to have! Right now, looking at F-Chat every now and then is my only form of entertainment!
I think this is key. The one blower is small and has a big job. The heater blowers look to be bigger and there are two of them. But for the AC that little fan doesn't do it. Of course if you blow more air, then I think the evaporator will be the next weak link and be too small.
I think that'll be a problem; upgrading the existing evaporator within the limited space under the dash.
Just visit your local WalMart exotic auto parts dept. and pick up one of these.... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Those old York compressors cooled Chrysler Imperials - they could cool a 3x8 without even noticing it's there. It's all in the rest of the system. My 328 system blows extremely cold air at the vents but the compressor cycles off too quickly so just as the car seems to be cooling down, the compressor stops and the car heats up. It's fine, as mentioned in the AM or late afternoon but with the sun shining in the windshield, it's marginal at best. THe system is properly charged with 134. At least in my 328, the problem is that the thermostatic switch is turning off the compressor too early. If the switch had a "max position" that forced the compressor to stay on, I believe the car would cool nicely. It's something I have been thinking about but I haven't actually done anything about it...
No you have to mount it in the window. And you'll need a generator on the trunk to supply the necessary AC power. Here this is how it is done: (Looks like Continental tail lights are just as elusive as 328 fog lights!) Image Unavailable, Please Login
Mike it should be easy enough to bridge out or make a bypass switch,although you dont want it reaching too low temp otherwise the evaporator will ice up and reduce flow even more
More than one way to "trick out" that pony. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
For maximum cooling you guys need to get rid of the 134 and recharge with R12. That should be the first step, period.
I don't agree, though I used to. The 134 blows cold enough at the vents on my 328 to literally freeze your hand. But, as I said, the compressor cycles off too soon and the car never get's cool enough in the middle of a hot/humid day. Just an hour or two ago I was in Annapolis at Mammocks, a mechanic shop with two guys who are REAL mechanics, not pretend to be mechanics. They do AC service though I wasn't there for that purpose. They said that the ONLY problem with a York compressor is that they vibrate. Otherwise, they have the capacity to cool anything. They noted that the air temp at the vents when the compressor is on is easily within specs for a car ac system. But the fact that the compressor turns off too early is an indicator that the rest of the system is undersize...not that that is a surprise. They pointed out the same thing that has been mentioned - you could wire the system so the compressor would stay on but doing so might just cause the evaporator to freeze up. Worth trying though...
It's plain physics and chemistry. If that 134 is freezing your hand, the same system, with R12 will flash freeze it, so to speak. I am glad you are happy with 134 but I have been unable to get the same results with 134 in any of my older cars. It is a pain in the ass to get but R12 works best in a system designed for R12. 134 was cold but R12 is REALLY cold and a 308 needs all it can get. I know because not only do I drive a 308 but it is black and I live in AL. 134 just can't compete with the old stuff down here head to head.
I'm not arguing the physics, just saying that 134 in the 328 seems easily able to provide sufficient cold air to cool the car in hot weather IF the thermostatic control didn't keep cycling the compressor off. I guess what I'm saying is that in my 328 I don't believe the choice of the refrigerent is the issue. The thermostatic control shuts of the compressor based on temp of the cold air. SInce it's shutting it down, the air in the plenum is plenty cold - the thermostat doesn't know what kind of refrigerant is in the system, it's just saying "It's cold enough to shut off the compressor." Unfortunately, the thermostat and I disagree. As I said, IF the control had a max "always on" position, I believe it could freeze me out of the car.
Based on what you are saying then, the thermostatic switch in the plenum is shutting down because it has reached its max (coldest) temperature. That said, it would make sense that by moving more air (bigger blower motor) you could balance the issue with more volume being cooled and also this would raise the temperature in the plenum to keep the thermostatic switch triggered. No obviously there will be a point at which the amount of volume being pumped through will be too much and your volume will then exceed the ability of the relatively small system to cool the air. So really there are two choices: you could computer model it an see what what would be the ideal system configuration an balance between compressor, condenser, evaporator, fan and plenum size (given the increases in efficiency of modern materials) -OR- could strap a bigger fan motor on there (a la Tim the Tool Man Taylor) and see what happens... I am all for option #2. (I just can't try it for another 9 months or so...)
I'm not the AC expert here but I think there are only 2 basic reasons that the compressor would cycle (shut off and on) . One is if you are low on freon which would trigger the pressure switch located near the dryer and the other would be if the thermostatic expansion valve is freezing up. You may have a bad or plugged valve . Based on my own experiance 134 is sufficent in the north east where I am located but in a hot climate I think it is mariginal. If the 134 is super cold as stated then it should cool the entire car before it cycles. I would think something is wrong with the system. I'm willing to bet that there is no one with a 3X8 car that has the compressor shut down because it is to cold or the evaporator froze over. Just my 2 cents.
