Tubeless Wire Wheels

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bob Zambelli, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli Formula 3
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    I have developed a method of eliminating the inner tubes on my Borannis.
    If anyone is interested, I will post my procedure.

    Bob Z.
     
  2. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3
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    Hi Bob

    Please do.

    Thanks
    Will
     
  3. Longstone Tyres

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    There are a variety of wheel companies that make what they claim to be tubeless wire wheels, by putting mastic over the spoke heads. For the most part they often work, however we have come across several failures where air leeks out around the spokes. This has happened to wheels from different manufacturers. We always fit tubes to every wire wheel, because then you don't get any nasty surprises.

    However if you have come up with a better technique we would be interested to hear.

    The other thought is; what for?

    All cars with wire wheels fitted 70% profile tyres or full profile. all 70% profile tyres can fit inner tubes weather they are described as tubeless or not. you should not fit inner tubes in tyres less than 70% profile (eg 225/65R15 cannot fit inner tubes) but it doesn't matter because you don't want to fit a tyre with that profile on a vintage Ferrar

    https://www.borrani.com themselves use tubes.
     
  4. peterp

    peterp F1 Rookie
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    Weight would be one advantage I guess. I believe the Borrani wheels are already quite a bit heavier than the alternative 330 alloys (even without the tubes), so eliminating tubes would seem to be beneficial. Does anybody know how much a 14" inner tube weighs? I don't know if it would be a significant difference or not.
     
  5. 330 4HL

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    My guess is that the tubes weigh less than a pound each, and I don't really see the point in in trying to run WW without tubes.
    If someone is going to drive these cars hard enough to be concerned about the difference in unsprung weight, I think picking up a spare set of alloys would be the preferred option for both weight and safety.
     
  6. Bob Zambelli

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    #6 Bob Zambelli, Jun 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Someone asked "What for?"
    Simple: convenience. My GTC is an everyday driver. Very often, I take it on a trip with the trunk full - I mean FULL! See the photo.

    Although a flat tire is a rare occurrence, if it does happen, I don't want to go through all the hassle of unloading the trunk, removing carpeting and the trunk floor.
    Instead, I just blow up the flat tire with a can of aerosol tire sealant, take it home and do a proper repair with a tubeless tire plug.

    Although my tubes weigh 2.6 pounds each, reducing unsprung weight is not an issue - I don't drive it hard enough on the road to notice any difference.

    Considering that the average vintage car driver puts very little mileage on his/her car, the chance of a flat is greatly lessened. I may drive mine 5 to 10 thousand miles per year, often on back roads where there is a greater chance of picking up a puncture.
    The idea of emptying my trunk on a dark back-country road is most unappealing. With a can of Fix-A-Flat, I'm back on the road in no time.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

    By the way, my sealing process is eight simple steps and takes about an hour per wheel.

    Bob Z.
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  8. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie
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    Spill your guts already, Bob!

    john
     
  9. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli Formula 3
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    Hi, John - I think I just did!

    Bob Z.
     
  10. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    ????
    Still waiting...
     
  11. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie

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    he said, "a can of fix a flat"
     
  12. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli Formula 3
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    Hi, Guys - sorry, I misunderstood.
    I will be repeating and photographing the process this coming weekend and I'll post it on Sunday or Monday.

    Bob Z.
     
  13. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    The issue of leaking air around the spoke-nipples is not what determines wether a rim is suited for tubeless fitment or not.

    A tubeless rim has 2 humps on the rim-bed, keeping the tyre seated against the lip when the pressure is down. The loud bang you hear when a tubeless tyre is pumped for the first time is the heel jumping the hump and seating itself against the rim-lip.

    If these humps are not present, you run the risk of the tyre coming off the rim when the pressure gets low.

    Best,

    Jack.
     
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  15. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

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    There. And that's all there is to it!
     
  16. Longstone Tyres

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    Hi

    The first tubeless wheels did not have that bump to hold the tyre on. However what i think is interesting is that very soon after making tubeless tyre and wheel technology they developed that bump and have stuck with it ever since.

    I say if in doubt with any 70% or 80% profile tyre put a tube in it. And put a tube in any wire wheel. https://www.borrani.com/ also fit tubes in all their wire wheels.

    Bob that is one of the best photo's of a Vintage Ferrari i have ever seen. I still would love to know your sealing process.
     
  17. Tinbender

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    Don't see how this is any different if there is a tube or not.
     
  18. SteviePPS

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    Really? With a tube it doesn't matter if a pothole or something similar briefly unsettles the bead of the tire. The tube will hold inflation, and the tire will return to the correct position.

    A tubeless tire that's mounted on a wheel without a rim bead will very easily deflate and come off its mounting as soon as it is stressed a run at low pressure. And a pothole or curb will instantly cause total deflation if there's no bead to hold the tire in place.
     
  19. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

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    you mention convenience as a reason for going tubeless, by being able to use Fix a flat...

    Fix a flat does not care or know whether it is being used with a tube or tubeless tire... and may even work better with a tube...

    I would think there is more exposure to things that can go wrong using a tubeless tire, on wire wheels ( designed to be used with tire and tube) than the inconvenience of perhaps replacing the tube at time of repair after using Fix a flat.
     
  20. Tinbender

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    I am talking about if you have a loss of pressure. Then a tire with a tube in it is going to come off the bead just the same as a tire without a tube in it. If you do not have a loss of pressure then it does not matter. So either way it is the same.
     
  21. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    Wrong.
    A tyre with tube will not suffer immediate and total deflation if the heel of the tyre loses contact with the rim-lip. Definitvely not the same.

    Best,

    Jack.
     
  22. SteviePPS

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    Thank you.
     
  23. Tinbender

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    Ok. I thought all of this was talking about a tire that has lost pressure. I don't think you are going to break a fully inflated tire lose on any type of rim but I guess anything is possible. I have been running tubeless tires on my 330GTC for over 30 years. I am running them on alloys but the alloys are made for tube type tires and do not have the extra lip.
     
  24. Longstone Tyres

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    #22 Longstone Tyres, Jun 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. Longstone Tyres

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    Incidentally; we have just had another phone call today from an owner of a modern Morgan fitting low profile tyres on so called tubeless wheels, because they had failed and he had air leeking round the spokes. It's not good.

    Stick with https://www.borrani.com/en/ruote-borrani-milano.html

    Incidentally, I have got a few Borrani Books, which are up for grabs. If you would like one email me through the Borrani.com web site.

    I'll be utterly upfront, I am happy to pay the postage on these books because I need you to ask for them by going through the Borrani web site, because google likes that sort of thing. As i am in business; i have to get down on bended knee and pray to the all mighty god Google; which has more power than any other organisation that doesn't have an elected leader. (and possibly more than some governments)
     
  26. SteviePPS

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    Hi Dougal, your website seems to be down. As for the books up for grabs....

    Best,

    Steve
     
  27. Longstone Tyres

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    Hi Steve

    The web site seems to be working, infact someone last night asked for a Borrani book, unfortunately they are in South Africa. Which is possibly one of the most expensive places to post to. I only have so many.

    We have also translated this web site into
    Russian https://www.borrani.com/ru/
    Arrabic https://www.borrani.com/ar/
    Japanese https://www.borrani.com/ja/
    &
    Chinese https://www.borrani.com/zh/
    In an attempt to spend as much money on carriage as possible.

    Please have a play with the fitment guide; It offeres tyres and wheels, let me know if you find any mistakes.
     

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