Tubeless Wire Wheels

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bob Zambelli, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Hi Dougal,

    That is me in S Africa. Had to cut and paste your e-mail address from the site, link itself appears to be inop.
    If it helps, I can provide an alternative address in Holland?

    Best,

    Jack.
     
  2. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

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    Will do! Just sent you an email with some photos.
     
  3. Longstone Tyres

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    Did you get the book?
     
  4. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

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    Nope. Did get a quote for rebuilding some Borrani's that I'm still chewing on...
     
  5. Tinbender

    Tinbender Formula Junior
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    I received my book. Thank you very much.
    Terry Phillips
     
  6. Enigma Racing

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    Great picture and judging from the amount of stuff you are carrying I can understand why
     
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  8. Longstone Tyres

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    Just out of interest, on the subject of tubeless wire wheels this wheel came into my shed yesterday. it is a tubeless wire wheel; (i am not happy about mentioning brand names).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gce9-VU_X_s

    Just fit Inner Tubes the ones on this link are generally Michelin which are the best.

    There are racing tubes out there with bolt in valve stems, but they are not as good as the Michelin Airstop tubes.
     
  9. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

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    Received the book, thanks Dougal!
     
  10. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli Formula 3
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    My apologies for not following up on my original post but a number of things have come up including landscaping and flood control, all of which have caused unavoidable delays.
    I'll be posting very soon.

    Bob Z.
     
  11. Longstone Tyres

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    Hi Bob

    I'm dying to know? and so are Borrani

    I'm not being sarcastic. if there really is an solution we'd love to know.

    Dougal
     
  12. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli Formula 3
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    #36 Bob Zambelli, Aug 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK, here’s my procedure. (I purchased everything I needed at the local Ace Hardware store.)
    1) Mount the wheel on the front, angle it out. The first picture shows what my wheel looked like before cleaning.
    2) Using a cup-type rotating wire brush, clean off all dirt and corrosion as shown in the second picture. When you’re sure it’s clean, clean it again.
    3) Blow off all dirt and debris from the wheel, especially at the spoke nipples.
    4) Wipe thoroughly with a rag soaked it lacquer thinner.
    5) Blow off again.
    6) Using a caulking gun, apply a liberal blob of silicone sealant to each nipple as shown in the third picture. Don’t worry – neatness doesn’t count.
    7) IMMEDIATELY after applying the silicone, wrap the wheel very tightly with vinyl electrical tap as shown in the fourth picture. Overlap the tape around ¼ inch and stretch it a bit.
    8) Using a folded paper towel, firmly wipe the taped area while rotating the wheel. This is very important as it forces the silicone firmly down in and around the nipples. It will appear as in the fifth picture.
    9) Let the assembly cure overnight – at least twelve hours.
    10) While rotating the wheel, spray a liberal coat of FlexSeal on the tape as shown in the sixth picture. Allow to dry for a few hours and then apply a second coat. Let the FlexSeal cure for at least 24 hours.
    That’s it. You’re ready to install some nice valve stems and mount the tires.
    By the way, there is one more step that I may or may not use. If I decide to do so, I’ll post more info tomorrow.

    Bob Z.
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  13. Longstone Tyres

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    Hi Bob

    I thiink that is probably as good as it gets. However I personally would not run tubeless like that.

    it is fair to say we come accross far less failures with tubeless wire wheels that are only centre laced. but that is not say we don't have any failures with centre laced tubeless wire wheels. One springs to mind that was on a Modern Morgan +8.

    Also really, i would want the safety rib that modern tubeless wheels all have (which is why the tyre makes that big bang when it jumps up onto the bead). I think in the 60's they started making tubeless tyres, and fitting to them with on plain rim, but it didn't take long for them to develop the safety rib which all modern wheels have.
     
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  15. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli Formula 3
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    Hi, Dougal.
    Thanks for the reply - you've made some good points.

    My main reason for going tubeless is the amount of driving I do.
    Remember, my GTC is an everyday driver.
    If I get a flat with a tube-type tire, I have to go through all the usual work to change it. This can be a bit uncomfortable alongside the interstate or next to a guardrail!
    Keep in mind that I have to empty the trunk just to get at the spare, jack and hammer.
    With the tubeless tires, I simply apply a can of Fix-A-Flat and I'm on my way.
    I can look into repairs when I return home.

    As far as the safely rim aspect goes, I have experienced a major failure with a tube-type tire at speed. The tire exploded and instantly lost all air.
    It did not come off the rim.
    I posted a photo of the tire a while back - I'll try and find it to repost.

    Bob Z.
     
  16. Bob Zambelli

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    #39 Bob Zambelli, Sep 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. Longstone Tyres

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    Hi

    You should not be getting punctures with good tubes in correct size tyres. (i think Michelin tubes are the best. If you run over a nail you only have yourself to blame; you should swerve round them). Can i suggest that the reason you had punctures historically is because you should not fit inner tubes in tyres of less than 70% profile. https://www.borrani.com/tubeless-wire-wheels.html

    I have been checking this out with both Michelin and Pirelli and they confirm that low profile (lower than 70%) should not fit inner tubes.

    I did ask one of these puncture repair aerosol people if they were happy with their products being used with inner tubes and the salesman that was in my office (chasing his commission ) said something along the lines of "Erm, i'm sure it will be fine". However when i asked him to confirm it with his technical department; i didn't hear from him again. I'm sure it would be a nightmare changing a tyre with that gunk in the inner tube.

    I understand why you want to do it. I do however still recommend fitting the correct size XWX , with top quality tubes. (Rubber valve stem tubes are4 better than bolt in tubes) i think the best way to buy tyres an tubes is to ring us up and do a deal.

    I appreciate the expense of these tyres is not insignificant; I have just bought myself a cheapo Rolls Royce Silver Shadow which are generally fitted with crappy wobbly side walled tyres that are intended to eradicate all experience but they just don't handle. i am going to have to fork out nearly quarter of the value of the car on a new set of Michelins, so i can enjoy it the way i want to.


    I admire someone using a car like that as an everyday car. I generally drive old cars all the time too, though generally older than that. Here is a short film i made with 2 of the cars i often drive to work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jFqB4M8_1c

    Dougal
    Longstone Tyres
     
  18. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli Formula 3
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    Hi, Dougal
    Maybe you can see a nail while driving on the Interstate at 70 MPH - I surely cannot!
    In the 140,000+ miles I've driven my GTC, I have had only one nail puncture. It was at speed, on a track and at well over 100 MPH - rest assured that I did not see it.

    I tried an aerosol sealant on the (inner tube) puncture and it was a dismal failure.
    BUT, I have used the aerosol sealant quite a few times on tubeless tires (I drive around 40,000 miles per year) and for nail punctures, the product worked just fine.

    The only 70 series tires I used on the GTC were XWX (215/70 VR 14, as I recall) - all others were 75 series and worked quite well for the type of driving I do.

    Regarding the XWX tires, when I used them, I was very disappointed. In the 40 years I've owned the GTC, I have used Michelin (XWX), Pirelli, Yokahama, Kumho, Goodyear, Uniroyal, BF Goodrich and Bridgestone.
    Of all the tires I tried, the XWX were my least favorite. In the rain, they were just plain unacceptable. They lasted less than 8,000 (mostly highway) miles and YES, all four wheels were aligned to factory specs.
    In any case, I'm not trying to discredit a product - just relating my personal experience.


    Bob Z.
     
  19. Longstone Tyres

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    Hi Bob

    I was only kidding about the nails. we English are renown for our sarcasm which often fails as a form of humor, but we continue regardless.

    we do the original 205VR14 XWX and we also do the 215/70VR14 XWX which is an inch smaller in diameter and half an inch wider. Both are good. i wouldn't think fitting one or the other would effect the longevity of the tyre.

    I am surprised you found the XWX bad in the wet, unless they were old stock tyres.

    I think the XWX is made with carcass structure as the critical part of the design to make them handle in a progressive, ppredictable manner as these rear wheel drive sports cars should be. I wouldn't think longevity was high on their list of features. However i don't tend to get complains on that front. I'm sorry you don't like them.

    I do think it is unusual that you have so many punctures.
     
  20. 2GT

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    Thanks for the tutorial, Bob! Fred
     
  21. beng

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    Just a quick note of support and thanks to Dougal, who answered questions promptly and very generously sent me some wonderful materials on Borrani wheels. He obviously devoted time and expense to correspond with me with no expectation of a sale, given the geographic distance and economic disadvantage of shipping wheels/tires across the pond.

    This kind of service, support and enthusiasm is sorely lacking in our Internet-enabled convenience first world. I am very grateful for your time and genuine dedication to the old car hobby. Thanks Dougal!
     
  22. Longstone Tyres

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    #45 Longstone Tyres, Oct 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you for your kind words Beng.

    Lets not kid ourselves. I am mostly in it for the money and we do ship the Michelin Classic range of tyres free of charge to most of the world including the States. Michelin Classic Tyres

    and we have a distributer in the States selling the Cinturato tyres pirelli cinturato

    However i am only involved in this business because i was an old car enthusiast first. and i believe friendly efficient service is important, I'm not just in it for the quick sale we are here for the long run. so please ask anything you like.

    Just for fun to show that i am an old car fan first and foremost; here are a few You tube films of my cars:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT0Y1wOMnuY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jFqB4M8_1c

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxx1Zn-NaW8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4ZKOPmeU7c

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK2XFb_cKe8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgp0_65_s0k

    Thank you again Beng for your kind words and giving me the opportunity to show off. I hope you like the video's they are just for fun.

    If anyone would like some of our slightly smutty posters they are available free here Vintage Tires I shall be making a Ferrari one soon so if anyone has any imagery i could use please send it along. but for now our current poster looks like this
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  23. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli Formula 3
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    The tubeless wire wheel setup is working just fine.

    I drive the car just over 800 miles in the last few days and there is no sign of leakage whatsoever.

    For anyone who drives a vintage car with wire wheels, I highly recommend this fix.
    Tubes are, in my opinion, a royal pain. Harder to install and if you get a puncture, you can't repair it with Fix-A-Flat. I know, I've tried.

    A puncture on a tubeless tire can be temporarily fixed with the aerosol and then permanently fixed with a plug, normally without removing the wheel from the car.

    Just my suggestion,

    Bob Z.
     
  24. Bob Zambelli

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    #47 Bob Zambelli, Nov 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm happy to report that the fix is still working well.
    I just drove to Hilton Head Island for the show this past weekend and logged around 300 miles.
    A friend recommended the Uniroyal AWS II tires and I chose a 205/75 R 14.
    I'm really pleased with the performance.
    Besides a very good ride, they are very stable and as good in the rain as any tire I've ever used.

    Bob Z.
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  25. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie
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    Bob, it would be a shame to rash those whitewalls. You ought to invest in some curb feelers. ;)

    Car looks great!

    john
     
  26. Bob Zambelli

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    Curb finders - GREAT IDEA!! I'll have to locate some.

    I'm thinking of adding some wheel skirts, a continental kit and lake pipes.

    What do you think?

    Bob Z.
     
  27. Admiral Goodwrench

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    Dear Bob,

    And do not forget flames.

    Best regards,
     

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