Tuning carbs - need help at step 1 - idle speed | FerrariChat

Tuning carbs - need help at step 1 - idle speed

Discussion in '308/328' started by Kidasters, Jun 18, 2016.

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  1. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
    Full Name:
    Ken
    #1 Kidasters, Jun 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK - I got the carbs that were just rebuilt installed on the car. Taking them off was tough, and getting them back on was tough as well. I'm so glad I took pictures of the linkage and labeled things - that made it much easier.

    I'm at the point now where I need to start tuning things. I'm trying to follow Birdman's tutorial on tuning, but I can't get past step 1 - using the throttle cable adjuster to get the car to idle at 1500 rpm. How does the throttle cable adjuster work? Is this a two man job?

    Please help. I'm close to being back on the road again, and it's killing me that I can't get further than this. Then again - it's over 100 F in the garage, I'm tired and frustrated, and it stopped being fun today. It's a good time to sit in the A/C now and take a break.

    Gratuitous pic attached
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  2. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2007
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    Geno
    #2 Sledge4.2, Jun 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    its behind and between the two forward carbs. Release the lock nut, and turn the cable housing which pulls the throttle cable forward and raises the idle.

    This is a good one to take your time with, its a finesse job.
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  3. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2007
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    Geno
    play with it before starting car, and observe how all the linkage works without the car running, that will save you sweat and fume :)
     
  4. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
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    Ken
    #4 Kidasters, Jun 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Sledge - I know where it is. guess I was just turning the lock nuts - not the housing.

    Is the rubber hose the "housing"? Because I fiddled with both nuts and nothing happened.

    I'll try that and mess with it some tomorrow morning.

    Photo from Birdman's website.
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  5. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,876
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    Mike 996
    I know I should refrain from answering since I don't own a carb Ferrari BUT...that looks like a standard bowden cable. The nut against the manifold is the lock nut, the nut against the cable housing moves the housing toward/away from the mounting point and thus tightens/loosens the cable and, thus, changes the carb opening.

    Loosen the lock nut and then turn the larger nut out (counter clockwise)to increase idle or in to decrease idle. It looks like it's close to all the way in at the moment. The entire end of the housing/threads look like they could use cleaning/lubricating. I suggest you disconnect the cable, unscrew the housing all the way and put some antisieze on the threads and then proceed with adjustment. You might consider actually lubricating the cable itself, from the accelerator pedal end. But that's a lot more work! :)
     
  6. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2001
    1,224
    Windsor, CT
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    Bill Sebestyen
    Let me see if I can be helpful.

    mike996 is correct in saying the lock nut is closest to the valve cover.

    The nut farther away from the valve cover is attached to the cable cover by a swivel joint and rigidly attached to the threaded shaft going into the valve cover boss and this nut controls the path length the internal cable follows. Lets now call this the adjusting nut. So, if you make the cable path longer, the cable pulls on the throttle bellcrank and linkage, at the carb end, because the cable itself doesn't change in length. The screw thread in the valve cover and on the cable cover is a normal right hand design.

    When viewed from the back of the car, turning the adjusting nut clockwise will increase the cable path length, making the cable pull the carb linkage such that the throttle will open. So this one adjusting nut can be used to increase or decrease the throttle opening of all carbs simultaneously. This is effectively a vernier throttle pedal and is very useful for enabling synchronization of the carbs. If the idle rpm is too high, turn the adjusting nut counterclockwise and the throttles on all shafts will close the same amount.

    Synchronization occurs elsewhere on the linkage. Each time a synchronization adjustment is made, it's good to go back to the adjuster nut to reset the engine idle speed to a nominal 1000 rpm.

    Bill
     
  7. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
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    Robert Bangs
    #7 Jet Lag, Jun 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You should check the condition of all your fuel lines while you're in there. I see a lot of 'hide-the-condition' braided fuel line. You don't want to find this
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  8. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
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    Ken
    Thanks - but fuel lines have been replaced all the way down to the fuel pump. I used super duper ethanol resistant lines too, so hopefully there are no issues there.
     
  9. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
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    Ken
    I think I've figured it out.

    The reason I couldn't make an adjustment, I think it was adjusted all the way out when I started. I think what I'll do it move the adjuster all the way closed, and then change the adjustment where it attaches to the carbs. Re-set the baseline kinda.
     
  10. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
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    Ken
    Hey guys. Quick update:

    I re-did the end of the cable, and was able to get the adjustment to work.

    I think I got them all balanced yesterday. Hopefully in a few weeks, I'll be able to finish and get on the road again.
     
  11. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
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    Ken
    Final update.

    First time, it wasn't balanced. Second and third times, still didn't have it. Swapped all of the plugs. Factory tool is the only way to pull the front plugs. Fourth time - finally figured it out. All 4 are pulling the same amount of air, idle is good. Turn off the car, and it doesn't cough and sputter at the end.


    Birdman's tutorial rules. Put the engine cover back on today. Only driving now!!!!
     
  12. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2013
    1,539
    Tulsa, OK
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    John McDermott
    Congratulations! I have this to do soon and based on your challenges I am not looking forward to it. I do not even have the benefit of being the person that took it apart. Ugh.
     
  13. Lorzen

    Lorzen Formula Junior

    Sep 20, 2011
    343
    NYC Metro
    Nice Work!

    Please post a picture of your " factory tool" and what plugs are you running? :)
     
  14. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
    Full Name:
    Ken
    #14 Kidasters, Oct 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Plugs are NGK BP8ES I think.

    Here's my spare tool. Again - this is the tool that comes in the toolkit. Sorry about the crap cellphone pic. Once it's on the plug in the back, I used a 14 mm open ended wrench to turn it.

    Did I mention? It's short, and I still had issues getting it between the firewall and the head. Also - I had trouble getting it around the fuel line and the throttle cable. There's just very little room to work on these cars.

    Like I said, I was lucky my factory kit was intact. I found this tool on e-bay, but it's missing the rubber insert. I'm on the hunt for an insert of some kind.
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  15. Lorzen

    Lorzen Formula Junior

    Sep 20, 2011
    343
    NYC Metro
    Thank you! ;)
     
  16. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,259
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    Martin N.
    #16 Martin308GTB, Oct 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not necessarily. This is what I use. The shorter extension for the front bank and a piece of snug fit hose once the plug is loose.

    Best Regards
    Martin
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  17. Kidasters

    Kidasters Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2013
    546
    Houston, Tx
    Full Name:
    Ken
    You are right Martin - it's not the Only Only way to do it. But, it's one step. Plus - what happens if you are doing the front bank, and the extension comes out of the socket? Or the socket gets stuck? Or (insert panic inducing moment here)......

    Factory tool is great. I love it. Just sayin'.
     
  18. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Stu Boogie
    I use short extension and telescopic magnet tool. Drop socket in. Drop extension in. Fit extension on socket and plug. Fit wrench on extension. Twist off. Pull wrench. Pull extension off socket with lateral force while pulling. Use magnet to pull socket and plug. Sounds like a bunch of work but goes amazingly fast and is done all by feel. Way better than factory tool.

    Caveat I am 6-2 with long arms and big hands which helps. I do this with lid on working from the front. I can reach around the lid and hand myself tools and plugs.
     

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