Turbo'd Ferraris

"how about a super charger?"
how about it?

 

Why does this matter in the least!

Driven on the public roads it is A) stupid, B) illegal to 1) kick someons butt, B) get you own butt kicked!

Driven on race tracks Ferrari holds itw own nicely (Porsche notwithstanding).

Why turbo? Why not Superchargers?

Why not turbos? Heat--lots of heat--you think the engine bay get hot with cats and NA, try adding 2X to this heat loading with turbos. Cooked wiring, cooked oil, cooked headers, cooked turbos--yech--and you loose that haunting intake induction sounds.

I see a lot of Vetts, Vipers, and other turboed cars at the race tracks. Not many of them can run for more than 20 minutes at a time (Porsche notwithstanding). Last weekend, I was within 0.5 sec/lap of a 04 911TT in a 355 on street tires. The car still has 3-4 sec/lap that the driver cannot extract.

 

Mark, how is that "Blow Hard" doing?
I hope winter has not slowed down your progress any on SC #II.

 

I like the fact that you can turbo a 360 and get 600+ hp out of the 3.6 litres.

I also like the fact that Porsche has to use quite a good ammount of boost to achive the same output that Ferrari gets from an NA engine of the same size.

Best!
Ben.

 

"I like the fact that you can turbo a 360 and get 600+ hp out of the 3.6 litres"

600 is a 308 number....a 360 can be pushed well over 700

Dave, at just over 20psi it was scary fast...until I melted the clutch.... I should have the new 3 disc carbon-carbon unit in this weekend and be back in business. I think it wants bigger fuel injectors too, I’ve got a set of 52 lb coming to replace the 48s.

 

In Eurpoe they produced a 208 GTB/GTS "Turbocharged" version to get around the tax laws onlarger displacement engines.

 

I guess back on topic, Ferrari's stance is less is more.

Our member opinions differ as well. Turbos can reportedly add 45% or more to your engine, superchargers are often quoted at 40%, and NOS can give way more than that. More power is always better in any form be it compression on a N/A engine, forced induction, whatever.

If it were not for the pursuit of more power, we would all drive 100 hp Honda Civics and racing would be non-existant as we know it.

Whatever you have use it responsibly, you know your own limits, you know your car's limits. If you find yourself on a deserted highway, and are ready, got for it, but please do not take your zeal and jeopodrize others' safety.

 

"Turbos can reportedly add 45% or more to your engine, superchargers are often quoted at 40%, and NOS can give way more than that."

40-45% is about 5-6 psi or so...so you're talking about basically bolt-on type stuff. 100-200% can be had if the engine is pre'd for it and there are several people who ost here in that range. I'm at 150% and Jeff's 348 Turbo is about the same....boost is good.

The standard rule for NOS is 30% is safe on a stock engine, but of course you can add more, but it's hard to get much over 50%, that much stuff just doesn't fit in the engine.

 

I know you can go higher, depending on what you have to work with. I would not normally boost a motor that starts with a 11:1 compression to begin with and expect reliability But consider that your avg hybrid Garret super .60 will have little lag if any and produce that much in gains, taking a 400hp motor and pushing it close to 550.

I can't imagine an arguement about a car getting 1000hp and b!tch!ng about a split second of lag. Having just driven a 1500hp turbine powered truck for a film sequence, I know lag can take up to a full second on a turbine, so a turbo is just fine by me.

 

Well, I can say the truck body is similar to one used by special forces and secret service, I can not comment on the specifics, I can RR Allison. (not from a 51 )

 

Ben,
I'm at about 600 at a little over 20 psi...the QV only started with 235. And I think I remember reading Jeff's 348 is around 550 at 15 psi, but I might have the number wrong on his car.

 

Mke- that's bloody awesome. Do you have info handy on how it was done?

Best!
Ben.

 

Ben, Here's how it went together
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/315437.html
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/324659.html

 

Hey Mark, good to see you again. I was wondering what happend to you. 600 cavalinos is awesome. Okay you have to spill the beans, how many cars have you mopped up, stories man storiesssss. Have you run into that Lexus for a rematch? How about the 911 turbos? Hahahaaaa, I can just imagine the shock on their faces when they get smoked. Anyway good to see you again. Oh yeah and what did you do to fix the belt slipping?

 

No porches in my garage, but I can contrast an EVO to the 328.

The EVO, with 19psi of boost, would probably take the 328, up until the aero drag difference came in.

In a straight line, that is.

Turbos give you power ... once they spool up.

But I've stopped trying to heel&toe the EVO on the street. Without antilag, there's just not much point. So the Ferrari, even with skinnier tires, still has the edge in turns, because the power is right there, with a flat torque band across the rpm range. Turbo'd engines give you a torque curve like the himalayas.

Frankly, I don't see a lot of "low end" torque on the EVO. I have to keep the rpms up to get around corners. And by the time I get full boost, it's time to shift.

The ricers aren't going with 6 speed boxes just to be "cool". You need six gears to keep a turbo engine in the narrow power band. On the Ferrari, I have power at almost any rpm. Not much help on the drag strip, but put it on a road course, and you'll see the difference.

Turbo'd (out of the box) engines for the street have very low natural compression. Downshift, and nothing happens. That means you use the brakes a lot more. (Got fade?) (But then, the AWD EVO takes a different driving style, anyway.)

Ferraris aren't dragsters. That sounds like an over-simplification, but I've owned a number of NA Italian cars and a couple of turbo'd ricers, and I know which I'd rather be driving in turns.

 

this is patently untrue. ferrari has been selling every single car it can make for the last many years. if it eliminated all exterior color choices besides red, and made all the seats cloth instead of leather, they probably would still sell every car they could make.

ferrari doesn't have a demand shortage. it carefully limits supply to manage its market.

one less than there are buyers as Enzo said.

doody.

 

"Turbo'd engines give you a torque curve like the himalayas. "

A perfect description.




ernie,
I think just the NOS'd Z I already told you about...it could be sometimes I just don't realize they were racing.....

Also, I've been playing a game of wack-a-mole with the car, so it hasn't been out as much as it should have been....probably the reason most people have enough sense not to mess with their cars.

To fx the slipping belt, I went from an inside idler that gave me about 170 degrees of belt wrap on the blower pulley to an out side idler mounted up near the blower pullley that gives me about 270 degrees of belt wrap. The bracket also supports the blower snout so it can flex. That moved the problem to the clutch which melted. The carbon-carbon replacement should have been here tues, or wed...I guess instead of putting it on a plane like I asked, they put it on the slow truck from CA. I'm sure it will solve the clutch problem when it gets here. I've also been playing musical fuel injectors. I found I had random cylinders going lean for no appearent reason. A new injector solves the problem and the problem follows the injector if I move it to a different cylinder, but when I sent them for flow testing, they tested perfect. I think that for some reason they just don't like boost. I ordered a set of a different brand that I have seen work in a high-boost engine and also went up from 48 to 52 lb/hr. They should be here mon, so hopefully next weekend I'll be back on the road.

 

im not sure if it has been said yet, but i think that there is something to be said about being traditional and holding at least some integrity within the company (Ferrari). Ferraris have always been about naturally aspirated engines (12's in particular).
I think that it is awsome that Ferrari is able to produce such small n/a engines with so much power. that just shows the incredible engineering involved.

i always brag (for Ferrari) about how fast they are without using some type of forced induction.

when i think of supercharged american cars (GT40 for example), sure i get excited about the power and speed, but then it kinda disappoints me to think that the GT40 is blown. itd be much more of an accomplishment for ford if that car was n/a and still had those same numbers.