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Two different VIN's on my 348. Now this one's good!!!

Discussion in '348/355' started by Husker, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2003
    8,982
    western hemisphere
    I just noticed something on my 348ts....

    On the frame of the car inside the door, it says ZFFFG35A8L0087449. On another panel, it says ZFFFG36AXLOO87449. There are only two differences in the VIN (35 versus 36, and 8 versus X), but this one is too weird.

    It has NEVER even seen paintwork, much less body work. You pull up these VIN's, one's for a TB, one's for a TS. SAME CAR I SWEAR! Any ideas on this? Anyone seen this before?
     
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  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    If you are not the first owner then I'm sorry, but it has either been in a huge accident or is a couple of stolen cars welded together.

    This is a very common thing down here in Australasia, ie. they steal 2 cars of the same type and try and hide the identity by cutting them into 2 and welding the opposite ends together ... why this helps I am not sure, but I know of cases where an important car (to us down here, ie. a genuine Holden Brock Commodore) was found 75% of the way through this re-identity process.

    What to do now?

    Obviously you need to check this out, but you need to becareful that you do not end up loosing your car and thus a stack of money! I am not sure of what happens now, ie. if the police take it off you with no come back due to owning stolen goods, or what?

    Good luck.
    Pete
     
  4. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    uh oh....

    Are you the original owner?
     
  5. WJHMH

    WJHMH Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 5, 2001
    22,714
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    Have someone check both vn# to get the real srory. BTW, you did get a PPI when you purchased your car didn't you?

    Good luck.
     
  6. Bryan

    Bryan Formula 3

    The serial number is the last 5 digits of the VIN. I would not think that a TS and a TB would have the same serial number. More likely that the VIN that points to a tb is just a mistake...a 5 is very close to a 6.
     
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  8. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    That's a good point... In this month's Forza in the 456 Buyer's guide it shows one 456 GT that came from the factory with GTA badges and some other unusual thing that was upside down or something... So, the factory does get it wrong sometimes.
     
  9. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2003
    8,982
    western hemisphere
    Guys...thanks for the encouragement...but I think you are over-reacting. Think about it: If it were two cars glued together or a major accident of some sort, then there would be more than just two mis-matched #'s, and the critical numbers - the last 8 - would be mismatched, too. There's nothing screwy with my car whatsoever - other than this curiosity. As I look at the car's history of inspections, maintenance, etc., some of the shops wrote down one number, some the other...but both were right! Guess I have a 348 TS-B! ??
     
  10. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
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    Pete
    That is a good point, and must be a relief ;). I had not thought about the fact that all the other numbers would not match ... der!

    Pete
     
  11. WJHMH

    WJHMH Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 5, 2001
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    Thats great to know.
     
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  13. Noelrp

    Noelrp Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2001
    630
    SSF
    Full Name:
    Noel
    Luigi must be tired when he was assembling your car (bad hang-over perhaps) :)
     
  14. rico

    rico Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    578
    Bournemouth
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    A 5 can easily look like a 6... same as an X can easily be an 8 with just the top bits rubbed out.

    How clear are the VIN numbers? If they're worn then i think you've just misread them and its ok :)

    How about some photos for us to see? :)
     
  15. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2003
    8,982
    western hemisphere

    There's no rubbing or distortion or "monkeying". It's simply a factory error - plain and simple. The two VIN's have been used interchangeably throughout the car's life. And it's only two digits of difference - the 5 versus 6 which signifies "TS" or "TB", and the other is a digit that they put on there that signifies compliance with US safety regs.

    All of that said, I might get FNA to write me a letter, though,confirming that "all is well" in case I ever want to part with my baby. Thoughts?
     
  16. rico

    rico Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    578
    Bournemouth
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    I'd definitely push for that. Just for peace of mind and to make the car easier to sell as the first thing someone will do is check the VINs....

    :)
     
  17. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
    16,501
    Savannah
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    I NEED A JOB
    ummmm..... trim and color mistakes on a car are one thing. i respectfully suggest you get with an attorney and contact the former owners and original dealer / FNA and get something documented in writing that will be accepted by the FEDS and your state DMV. the VIN # is not something you want to have a discrepancy on, i dont care how special or hand built ferraris are, you have the potential makings of a nightmare on your hands if you do have 2 vins on the car. what happens in a accident with police reports??? insurance claims??? you get pulled over here in ga with a vin # "oops" they will impound your car RIGHT NOW .... they dont care if its a factory error or not, its your problem. i know a guy that bought a newer VW that was stopped in atlanta for a seatbelt / license check. cop checked the vin on the car and it came back stolen. guess what, it was sold as a theft recovery car with legal paperwork but he went to jail and it took 6 months for the state of ga ( state patol) to release his car to him. the vin # is sewn in the seatbelts and it was the original vin, his car had some parts off another car put on it when it was found in a chop shop and later re sold, legally. the car was stolen and re sold in GA no less, ya got to love our government. sorry to be a sour puss, but you have a nice ferrari and the feds and the cops may not be inclined to look at it as a factory mistake. best of luck to you. the vin # is federal and the feds dont play nice with others.
     
  18. Exoticbro

    Exoticbro Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    203
    St.Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Chuck Ligon
    Run a carfax on both Vins, this should be a simple way
    to see if any red flags pop up.
     
  19. MadMaxx

    MadMaxx Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    105
    Most likely factory mistake. I highly doubt the SN would be the same, even if the models were different.

    Factory does screw up. My road runner had the wrong paint code stamped on the factory ID plate, but it was 100% original paint. It does happen :)


    MM
     
  20. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2003
    8,982
    western hemisphere
    Just a follow-up. I contacted FNA and the car indeed had the wrong "sticker" VIN# put on the door sill area. The other VIN identifiers on the car are stamped and they all match. FNA is sending me a clarification letter. If you run a car fax on both VIN's, you get a good history of smog checks, etc., but of course, one shop writes down one VIN, the next shop writes down the other! So as I said before, I am the one and only ower of a Ferrari 348TS...B!
     
  21. evandaalen

    evandaalen Formula 3
    Consultant

    Feb 7, 2004
    2,377
    Deventer, NL
    Full Name:
    Edvar van Daalen
    Please note that the 9th digit of a VIN is the so-called "check digit". This digit is a complex calculation of all other digits. In your case, both check digits are OK, so I also think that one of the guys at the factory was sleeping and thought that your ts was a tb. This could explain the whole story.

    I don't think it's related to theft, as this would mean that the last 5 digits would be different.

    For more on VINs, please check my site:
    http://www.red-headed.com/articles/vin.html

    Grtx, Edvar
     
  22. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
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    great news!!! sorry for my paranoid post but i have been screwed over before, so now i am bitter and paranoid!!!! lol
     
  23. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 7, 2002
    10,075
    New Jersey
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    Barry Wolinsky
    Right! It had a Euro speedometer in KPH.
     
  24. MarkG

    MarkG Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    369
    Colorado Springs
    Full Name:
    Mark
    As a former law enforcement type, (with a record of 4 stolen recoveries in one shift!), I would highly recomend you carry this letter from FNA at all times.

    Even then, don't be too shocked if it goes to impound if you get stopped by a sharp traffic cop. Mis-matched VIN #s just don't cut it, especially if one of them is a non-riveted label.

    You might see if your state's DMV can also issue something, like they do with 'from scratch' kit cars, verifying that cars is legit.
     
  25. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    20,575
    socal
    The 348 door sticker VINs are a convenience item for the FNA dealer it is bar coded. There are other legal VIN identifiers on the car. They should all match. Also those identifiers should match the VIN as on your Title. As long as they do don't sweat it...pull off the door vin sticker. I would not be surprised if el cheapo lazy FNA make the door stickers all TB's by the vin digits just for themselves. This system makes it easy to ID things like recall campaigns etc.. A VIN "sticker" is not a valid VIN identifier by law. If Ferrari could get by with a sticker you can bet they would not be stamping numbers/letters into the shock tower frame. The FNA dealer will just have to do some work and open the bonnet and read the vin by hand. At $75 bucks an hour he can do that.
     
  26. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2003
    8,982
    western hemisphere
    Hey Fellows! FNA is sending me a fresh new STICKER for my car. Then, all will match! They said they mistakenly put a "TB" sticker on at the factory instead of a "TS" one.
     

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