U.S. Federalized or Euro original | FerrariChat

U.S. Federalized or Euro original

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Capt. Rich, Apr 8, 2024.

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  1. Capt. Rich

    Capt. Rich Formula Junior
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    Jun 9, 2008
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    When having a BBi judged in a concours, like the FCA Nationals, how particular should your BBi be presented. I have three ear knock offs-euro, not octagonals-US. I have name plates pop riveted to the door jambs, identifying the original owner, importer( same) manufacturer, and date-US. Machine screws on the side of the doors, showing where DOT crash bars are installed-US. I hope these are minor items that would be overlooked when judging either U.S. or euro version. Thoughts anyone.
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #2 Rifledriver, Apr 8, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2024
    Not over looked if its well judged. It either needs to look like a federalized version or its original configuration. Several countries banned eared knock offs. It was not US only. Look at the parts book.

    If I am reading the codes correctly Austria, Germany, France, Denmark, Belgium, and Luxembourg did not allow knock offs when the BBi was made.

    I kind of doubt the door plates would be deducted. I wouldn't. They may prevent me from voting it for best flat 12 but I would not deduct for them.
     
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  3. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

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    A great question that should be answered by someone currently selected to be a BB/BBI head judge in the upcoming FCA RA event. There are FCA online examples within the Preservation class, but they are not series specific, as the BB/BBI series was gray market import with numerious variations.

    When I partipated in these events in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 2009 and 2013 with my BBI, Dick Fritz (Ameritech) was the head judge of the BB/BBI series during those years. He is in my opinon the most knowledgable of the variations of how importers fitted the BB/BBI.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #4 Rifledriver, Apr 8, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2024
    There is no one currently selected. My other half is chief judge and it will be some time before that happens.
    Besides, he or she would be prohibited from advising. We have a strict rule against prejudging. I am not prejudging because it is almost certain I will not be judging BBs.
     
  5. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

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    #5 Dave Bendl, Apr 8, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2024
    Having no one selected is a scary thought as these were not an FNA standard USA series and if the FCA is attempting to judge the series as such, many conflicts can arise.
    Regarding the BBI parts book for example, it indicates the zippered cavalino leather pouch for the tool kit is interior color...... Not so fast, mine is black and I have it in writing from Marenelo Customer Care that it was supplied in black.

    BB/BBI's as any other gray market cars have to be judged differently by very knowlegable people that know all the in's and out's of the series. These are not the run of the mill FNA standard fitted.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #6 Rifledriver, Apr 8, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2024
    Its not still 2005. We in fact do have several very able judges several of which are long time multiple BB owners but thank you for your concern.

    I worked with Dick for years at FCA and Cavallino both. He and I were on the IAC/PFA board together. He was not CCJ of the BB class each and every year. A few times he and I both were in that class, sometimes neither. We get put where there is the greatest need for the cars in our area of expertise. Like I, Dick has a good number of cars he is very well versed on. Those decisions are not made until the list of cars attending is finalized, never has been otherwise. Not by Ed, Chris or now Leslie. The massive number of early cars attending pretty much means Dick if he even attends will be judging one of those classes. But like I said, that will not be known for a while yet.
     
  7. Capt. Rich

    Capt. Rich Formula Junior
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    Just a piece of history. Years back when I owned my first BBi 43799, Dick was at the same table for dinner at a Cavallino Classic or Nationals, my brain can't remember. It's age not the alcohol. He explained to me how my BBi had a Borla after market exhaust installed. They meaning "Amerispec" who tweaked the exhaust for the best sound. As everyone knows who pay attention to details, Amerispec did the best federalizations.
     
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  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #8 Rifledriver, Apr 8, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2024
    They were very invasive and the hardest to reverse but it was a usable, reliable car in federalized form. Most others were performed with the specific intent of reversal as soon as the car was tested and were often very jury rigged.
     
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  9. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    if i ever bother to show my BBi again, i would hope that Dick Fritz be the judge since he is the one who federalized mine (and graciously spoke to me about it and sent me a copy of all the records from Amerispec)! (despite my car having returned to europe where i bought it. )
    the funny thing about those federalized cars is that they are all different as well, with my own bias that those done by Amerispec are the best since they are the least intrusive and kept the cars looking almost completely euro stock (how they did that is a mystery best left unresearched ;) ).
     
  10. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    separate question on this subject..... exhausts.

    i have seen at least 3 different variants that all claim to be stock.
    i have spoken to my tech, who has also seen multiples variants.
    did ferrari just throw on what they had at that moment in the construction process, or was it a buyer's option? or was it a first destination requirement?
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    The dealer I worked at during BBi production won an award from Ferrari for selling more new BBis than any dealer world wide.I have only seen one factory exhaust configuration.
     
  12. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    ok. were you also federalizing these at your dealership ? how did you go about doing that - can you describe the alterations for bumpers lights etc
     
  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    No. We subbed it out.
     
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  14. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Didn't Amerispec install those ugly flat DOT bumpers?
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    The bumpers were one of the items I was talking about when I said invasive. They were far from attractive and considerable work to reverse.
    Not sure on your description though because there were several solutions used by various shops that could fit that description.
     
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  16. Capt. Rich

    Capt. Rich Formula Junior
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    Amerispec would cut approximate 1 1/2 inch holes in the rear bumper. They fabricated steel bumpers that had the same curve of the existing bumper. They then had a bar that went thru the opening and bolted to the frame. Mr. Fritz would do sort of the same for the front bumper. They removed the rectangular parking lights and bolted the newly fabricated pig iron bumper thru this opening to the frame. I was fortunate enough when I bought my first BBi that the parking lights were in the glove box. I only had to unbolt the DOT spec front bumper and re-install the lights. The rear was a bit more work. I had to glass over the openings and then rattle can the face of the bumper, using the sharp radius top and bottom as a transition point. No one was ever the wiser. Mr. Fritz would reverse the rear lights putting the red brake light on the outside to serve as a red reflector. This eliminated the need to cut into the rear fender to mount a red light. To pass the emissions test, EPA,I am sure Brian would know all those particulars. I have been told 100 octane fuel and lowering the idle would help the emissions. Along with a smog pump,catalytic converters,Lambda emission device, fuel neck restrictor, and egr system. Going back to the bumpers, I moved about 12 years ago and part of the move was to clear out my garage of stuff. I regret that some of the stuff I threw out was those bumpers. If I kept them they would be hanging in my garage as a piece of BBi history. The BBi I own today was not an Amerispec federalization. It was done by "G&K Automotive Conversion Inc." in Santa Ana California to the tune of $9450.00. I don't see any body mods. She has an Ansa sport exhaust. The headlights are sealed beam, which I am working on. The factory build sheet reads speedo in MPH. Some folks say you could not get this from the factory. Enough, I'm a slow typer.
     
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  17. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    my car was homologated by Amerispec and Mr Fritz kindly sent me all the documentation.
    i enjoyed this description - thank you.
    the second owner of my car imported it back to italy and reversed almost all the federalization changes - only the steal door bars remain - along with the attestation taped in the driver's door jam.
    but that was made possible because Amerispec was the least invasive and damaging of the homologations companies - some of them were real pirates/butchers.
     
  18. Capt. Rich

    Capt. Rich Formula Junior
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  19. Capt. Rich

    Capt. Rich Formula Junior
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    I also still have the door bars. I removed the ID placards on the door jambs. I put them in my folder with the federalization papers. They were not only held on with adhesive but also pop riveted.
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I guess whoever said that about the speedometers never looked in a parts book. https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/part/search?SearchText=117914
     
  21. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Yes, I sent mine to G&K in '85. The Dot work seemed visibly cleaner than Amerispec. I DID NOT want those bumpers on my car.
     
  22. Capt. Rich

    Capt. Rich Formula Junior
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    Hello Brian, I always read your posts, they are informative and better yet they are damn entertaining. I am always a little hesitant to post because at times I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. The matter of the speedo. I am the second owner of my BBi. I bought the BBi from the original owners estate. I am very fortunate to have the paperwork from day one. I have not a copy but the original bill of sale from the factory. It reads BB/512i chassis no. 50599 with radio, speedometer in miles, EE plates accessories special discount Colour: Rosso C. FER 300/6=WITHOUT BLACK BOTTOM The price of the car was $61,500 a paint discount of $6500.00. cost of the BBi from the factory $55,000. They listed these numbers in US$. The original owner drove the car in Europe and had the first service at Monaco Motors- G Cavallari and the second at Garage Francorchamps.
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    You are really fortunate to have that paperwork. A good paper trail is unusual with gray market cars.

    You are also very fortunate to be second owner. Original owners typically take good care of their cars. Gray market cars in general and Ferraris of that period so often went through flippers who drove them like they stole them.
     
  24. Capt. Rich

    Capt. Rich Formula Junior
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    Hey Brian, Obviously you know more than me and most Ferrari owners. I was lucky to be in the right place and the right time for this BB.
     
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  25. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Any idea what those door beams weight?

    On my car the difficult to reverse part is the side marker lights in the clam. Otherwise besides side markers and door beams its back to factory.
     

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