Uh Oh...this can't be good. | FerrariChat

Uh Oh...this can't be good.

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by My365, Dec 29, 2011.

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  1. My365

    My365 Karting

    May 4, 2009
    191
    Baltimore, MD
    Drove my 86 Mondial up to my Mom's house for Christmas. It's about a 45 minute drive and everything went fine. Pulled strong, temp good...it was a real nice ride. The ride home was pretty much the same...until I was backing into my driveway and heard a tapping sound coming from the engine area. I pulled into the garage and shut her down as quick as I could. It was then that I noticed a trail of coolant running up my driveway. I traced the coolant to the expansion tank overflow tube. There was also an odor or burnt oil. Oil level was fine...coolant was a little low. The next day I started it up and the tapping was still present. It is definitely coming from the engine area I just can't pin down whether its coming from inside the engine or the exhaust. I changed the oil and plugs about 6 months (500 miles) ago. I suspect that the engine overheated and fried the oil. The coolant temperature gauge never got over 195 though so there might be an issue with the gauge or the temperature sender. My main concern is that the engine might have sustained some serious damage. I plan to change the oil and see if that helps anything. Will probably also flush the coolant system. What else can I do (short of taking it to a shop) to try to determine whats going on?
     
  2. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Jan 20, 2004
    40,487
    Purgatory
    Full Name:
    Clifford Gunboat
    What does your oil look like on the dipstick? Foamy? Milky?
     
  3. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Sorry to hear of your trouble.

    I've no knowledge of your specific car so offering generic advice here only......

    Loss of coolant from overflow pipe would generally be suggesting overheating but potentially over filling also. However, given the other symptoms you describe, it's possible that combustion pressure is being forced through the coolant system due to a blown head gasket or cracked / damaged head or block.

    Personally I think I'd start with compression testing each of the cylinders, also careful inspection of the plugs and looking for traces of any leaks of any nature at all. The tapping sound you describe is possibly compression leaking.

    I don't think I'd be inclined to drive the car at present.

    Good luck.
     
  4. My365

    My365 Karting

    May 4, 2009
    191
    Baltimore, MD
    Changed the oil just now. It was pretty dark and smelled burnt, however I did not see any coolant in it. I also strained it and didn't see any particles which is good. I replaced the oil and filter and cranked her up. It tapped for about 5 seconds (like I expected) and then the tapping faded. It blew a considerable amount of white smoke for about 3 minutes (which is not good) but that also cleared up. I let it run for about 5 more minutes and started to hear the faintest sound of tapping creeping in again. The windows were also fogging up so so I shut it off. The smoke smelled like regular exhaust smoke and not the sweet smell you would expect if it was burning coolant. Gonna try and flush the cooling system tomorrow and see if I can't troubleshoot the overheating problem. It goes without saying I will not be driving the car anywhere soon.
     
  5. TdF

    TdF Karting

    Aug 4, 2006
    95
    Coolant leaking after a sedate drive in Maryland in December in any car is out of limits.
    Smell repairs usually cost less than smoke repairs.
    Qualified Ferrari techs are in no short supply in your area, advice should be forth-coming.
     
  6. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Save the effort of changing the coolant and start with pressure testing the cooling system. It attaches where the cooling system cap installs and pump up the pressure to see if it holds.
     
  7. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

    Jul 16, 2011
    7,042
    Fairfield,Pa
    Full Name:
    Robert
    If you get stuck take it to Richard at Radcliffs. Good diagnostician, highly recommended, in Owings Mills.
     
  8. cptndon

    cptndon Formula Junior

    Jan 24, 2005
    435
    Annapolis
    +1 on Radcliffe
     
  9. Ben348

    Ben348 Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2008
    304
    NH the Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Ben
    Sounds like big end bearings to me... Damn'd I hope I am wrong....

    Happy wrenching!

    Ben.
     
  10. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

  11. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    I resisted suggesting pressure testing the coolant system on the basis that you could find yourself pushing coolant into one or more combustion chambers. Be very careful about that, you could find yourself with a cylinder-full of coolant with dramatic effect if you then try to start the engine again.
     
  12. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,811
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Or, you can do the other way around, pressurize the cylinder one by one ( this will take higher pressure than the cooling system) and see if you can hear or see air bubble from the expansion tank.
     
  13. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    11,908
    Wayne, NJ
    Full Name:
    Clyde E. McMurdy
    How bout checking the air pump.
    My 308 made a tapping just before she locked up.
     
  14. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2003
    43,205
    PNW
    Full Name:
    John
    Also check the water pump belt. I would have never thought a belt could make what sounds like a metallic clicking sound, but mine did. When was the last time it was changed? Mine started making noise just before the water pump started weeping. Could also explain why your car apparently overheated if the pump is going.

    Hope it's something simple.
     
  15. TdF

    TdF Karting

    Aug 4, 2006
    95
    FerrariDublin is correct per coolant in a cylinder while cranking.
    The result is connecting rod origami.
     
  16. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Burned smell = Bummer. Remove the oil filler cap and take a big whiff. If it smells burnt in there your going to need a professional. If it got that hot it will be obvious. But if your oil level was good I can't see how it would get that hot without both oil temp and water temp going off the scale. Unlikely both gauges are bad at the same time but it is a Ferrari.
     
  17. Sunracer

    Sunracer Formula Junior

    May 18, 2005
    661
    Makati City
    Full Name:
    Pierre Beniston
    regarding the smog pump and other accessories, just take off the belts one at a time and run it after it had been tapping to see if it dissapears. This way you can spin each accessory by hand as well to check for resistance.

    Another quick head gasket test is start it up when cold and see if it pressurises the hose right away. Then you know you are getting combustion pressure in the cooling system as it will take a while for the coolant to heat up normally and pressurise the system.

    After you run it up to temp you can also pull the plugs and compare. Leaking coolant will have the effet of steam cleaning the affected plugs
     
  18. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,471
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Urs STEMMLER
    The tapping noise and the coolant and oil issues MAY not be related. They could be.

    I had a stretched front cam belt (about 10K and 10 month...) on my QV that was "loose" on the tensioner bearing. It made a metal/mechanical type of tapping noise, a mix of bad valve clearance, severe pinking and big end bearing type of "expensive" noise. Very worrying.
    Luckily, it didn't jump a tooth, and re-tensioning and re-greasing the "dry" looking SKF tensioner bearing of the same age as the belt eliminated all unusual noises at once...
    Unexpected though for a new belt and bearing... and a car driven on the road, not tracked.

    Why do you suspect your temp gauge to be wrong (other than the expansion tank issue)?
    Your cap may not be working correctly and causing a leak while the temp is still within range. Just a thought as 195° is nowhere near worrying.

    The burnt oil may be from an external leak, burning up on the exhaust or another hot part.
    Or an issue with the blow-by system. Did your car consume more oil than usual?

    Just some thoughts. Best wishes for the new year!
     
  19. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 1, 2002
    5,325
    18 mi from the surf,, close to Pismo, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwardo
    #19 350HPMondial, Dec 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Aaaaaa yes, just how do I begin That story.
    ;)

    Edwardo
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. My365

    My365 Karting

    May 4, 2009
    191
    Baltimore, MD
    I bled the cooling system and got a fair amount of air out. I started her up with the expansion tank cap off and didn't see any bubbles coming to the surface which would be a sign that the head gasket was fried. I looked at the overflow coolant and didn't see any oil in it. Then I replaced the spark plugs. All the old plugs looked virtually new (as you would expect with less than 500 miles on them). There was no sign of oil or coolant on them. I am reasonably confident that my head gasket is intact. As to whether the internal components are ok or not is another matter altogether that remains to be seen. Next I'm going to try to get a good look at the exhaust to see if a leak could be the problem.
     
  21. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Hey Edwardo, that's an impressive bucket of pistons you have there. Care to tell the story or link to it if already told?

    My365, yes leak from somewhere in the exhaust manifold area could certainly explain the talking noise also. Do please keep us posted on your progress.
     
  22. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Does the car have an emission air rail like the 308. If that small tubing gets a pin hole you will hear the valves pretty clearly. With the car running slide your hand down the tubing. You will feel the air if there is a hole. The front is easy, the back rail is not.
     
  23. My365

    My365 Karting

    May 4, 2009
    191
    Baltimore, MD
    Problem solved! After examining the exhaust I noticed that the P/O had removed the analyzing pipes from the exhaust. The holes were all plugged but one. I plugged it and no more ticking sound. Seeing as how it didn't make the ticking sound until my last trip I guess the plug that was in there must have blown out. I guess I should have taken others advice and checked the exhaust first but I honestly didn't think that an exhaust leak could sound like that. The only exhaust leaks that I've seen were further down the line and didn't make that kind of sound. I'm not sure if this will account for all the symptoms that I had but at least its a (big) step in the right direction. Thanks to everyone for their assistance. Hopefully I can return the favor someday.
     
  24. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    A friend had their 1990 Oldsmobile towed in yesterday with a spark plug "blown out" of the head. Apparently someone years ago stripped the threads and it finally came out. Re-tapped it for an insert and a new plug.

    Now THAT was a noise!

    Glad your problem was minor.
     
  25. voicey

    voicey Formula 3

    Jul 29, 2009
    1,193
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Aldous Voice
    I've had a spark plug pop out of its threads on a 4 cylinder turbo engine before - I thought the engine had gone when it happened but was very relieved with the straightforward fix!
     

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