Uneven Engine temperaure at start | FerrariChat

Uneven Engine temperaure at start

Discussion in '348/355' started by Fredmec00, Aug 18, 2016.

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  1. Fredmec00

    Fredmec00 Rookie

    Apr 11, 2016
    29
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Frederico Oliveira
    Out of curiosity, I decided to check exhaust manifolds temperatures in my F355. I found something a little disturbing.

    At engine start, half of the engine was running cooler than the other. Left bank at 200°C (400°F) and right bank, 50°C (120°F).

    I am new to ferraries, but the exhaust sides should run even, unless something is wrong with the engine. The engine does not sound to be running in 4 cylinders.

    Have someone experienced simmilar issue? Any clues?

    In the link below you can see the movie with temperature measuments done with dual beam Fluke infrared gun.
    https://youtu.be/R26ZmRK099M

    Thanks,
    Fred
     
  2. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    7,346
    Kzoo Michigan
    #2 phrogs, Aug 19, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
    I tried to take temps off my headers and it always seems the oil cooler side RH was hotter

    Could be a possible ehaust leak, get a smoke test and find out.

    Plenty of info on the forum about it.
     
  3. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    631
    Belzium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Maybe the auxiliary air supply to the exhaust at startup is only working on one side
    The non return valve could be closed

    What about temperatures when the engine is hot
     
  4. Fredmec00

    Fredmec00 Rookie

    Apr 11, 2016
    29
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Frederico Oliveira
    When hot, after running in idle for 15 min, the temperature evened out. It actually happened in a matter of 2-3 minutes. It just started rising quickly to the same readings as the left side.

    How does this auiliary air supply works?
     
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,731
    Auxiliary air pusses fresh air through a one-way valve and into the header tubes.
    The fresh air burns residual fuel from the rich start mixture.

    I suspect one of the one-way valves is not opening.
     
  6. Drock28

    Drock28 Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
    1,430
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Tony
    at start up from pure cold.. there is an air pump that blows air into the rails connected to the headers for the first 2-3mins.. to lean out the rich fuel mixture at start up.. which I think had to be done for emissions reasons..

    owners often delete the system all together..

    the pump makes a whistling sound for 2-3mins then turns off.. you will not hear it again at future starts, unless the car cooled down significantly..


    could make sense if air is getting only to one side making it cooler..
    but how quick from start up was your vid.. as I did not hear air pump sound in the vid..
     
  7. Fredmec00

    Fredmec00 Rookie

    Apr 11, 2016
    29
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Frederico Oliveira
    #7 Fredmec00, Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Drock, the video was taken 1-2min after start. I will check if the temperature rises right after the pump stops. Maybe the hot manifold (driver side) has a check valve stuck in close position or system dissabled on that end. This would actually mean the left side is the one running as spec.

    I guess first I have to hear the pump! I will do it as soon as back to Brazil next month and I will update this forum thread.

    Note:
    I found the description on the system, see picture below. The text is a bit contradictory. At the begining it says the system runs with engine at cold start and then later it says extra airfeed is not activated at temperature below 59°F (15°C). Am I missing something here?

    Earlier vs Later F355s
    Is this system applicable for the 1995 models? I thought the ealier cars didnd't have as much strict emission controls.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,232
    Serbia - Niš
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    There is no contradiction - air injection is activated if the engine temp. is anywhere between 15C and 63C; if the engine temp. is below 15C, it will not be activated to avoid overheating of the exhaust system. The reason for this, I believe, is because at temps below 15C the mixture will be enriched to such levels which will cause too much "afterburn" with the injected air causing overheating of the exhaust (and you may take-off if running with afterburners!).
     
  9. Fredmec00

    Fredmec00 Rookie

    Apr 11, 2016
    29
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Frederico Oliveira
    Understood! Afterburning was good analogy!

    Anyone can clarify if this auxiliary airfeed is installed in the early F355s? Mine is 1995, motronic 2.7. I wish I could check physically, but the car 15,000 miles away and I don't have my tele-transport machine on me lol
     
  10. Andy 355

    Andy 355 Formula Junior

    Jun 2, 2013
    434
    Sydney
    Maybe, if in fact the engine is running on all 8 cylinders, the inside header insulation on one side is gone since technically the measurement is not being taken from a header pipe....
     
  11. cesarsim

    cesarsim Rookie

    Mar 4, 2011
    31
    Spain
    Any news about this? I have exactly the same problem in my M 5.2.
     
  12. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
    2,800
    Full Name:
    F683
    I wonder if this system, if running longer than it should or otherwise running when it should not be, is a contributing factor to header melting?


     
  13. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,045
    USA
    Doubtful. The only reports we ever get are of the system not working ("check engine" light illuminated), due to the fuse blown (Ferrari ended up recommending a 5amp higher fuse to stop the fuse blowing). The air pump whistling noise is so loud, that you would know if it was running too long or continuously...it is pretty obnoxious racket...
     
  14. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
    2,800
    Full Name:
    F683
    I agree that it's noticeably loud at start-up and idle but if it continued to run during driving I doubt if you would hear it, particularly in a GTB with the windows up and a non-OEM exhaust or if you're playing music.

    I've disconnected mine but not due to the sound/noise.


     

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