Unfair doctor charge | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Unfair doctor charge

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by treedee3d, Feb 7, 2013.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Vinny Bourne

    Vinny Bourne Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2011
    910
    Good post in general treedee


    That is not what I said. But since you bring it up, do I think Doc's feel like they are in a GAME where they resent paying huge premiums for malpractice and may try to even the score when they can? YES Do I think Doc's of today have a whole different view of themselves and their worth from the generations past? YES!

    My father's Doc got his degree in 47' was still doing house calls in his 80's. Had a reputation of being one of the wisest MD's around, would often refuse payment and actually cared about his patients. This was less than 10 years ago. When he retired it was the end of an era. Now we hear about concierge medicine etc. It's all about the money.

    Hospital stays in the past were much longer, care was more personal, and very few people were declaring bankruptcy because of medical problems.

    The charges that hospitals come up with today are insane, the 1 day rates simply unjustifiable. Look at my examples the $2,300 bandaid and the $3,000 quart of gatorade. I also saw many years worth of billing from Medicare and private insurance for everything to do with my now deceased parents and what certain providers were billing and what Medicare/private were actually paying -- HUGE differences and crazy prices. When the religious inst. and local govt.s got out of the hospital business and the for profits got in things went bad fast.


    My feeling is if money was/is a motivating factor for anyone entering medicine, QUIT.
     
  2. treedee3d

    treedee3d F1 Rookie

    Apr 1, 2011
    3,721
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Fab
    -I used the word "idiotic" because it didn't make sense and because you had it wrong, not because it's not what I wanted to hear. (Note to moderator: Not calling the person an idiot per say but used the word to emphasize how wrong it was but I appreciate and understand the warning. Also, if moderator objects to the word, the warning should be given to everyone IMO, see post 49, line 11. just sayin')

    -DrGek' post makes sense and I did read it. I don't have a problem with a doctor charging fees or even why they charge fees or even how high the fee is. My issue (if you bothered reading the initial posting) is that this should be disclosed to a patient. Especially one that comes from another country

    -I mentionned the 2 hour drive because it was part of my story....who are you to judge what parts of a post are relevant and which ones aren't??? and what's with all this Hate for Canada and its system??? There are some things available in the US that are not in Canada and vice-versa in the medical field and other industries, so what? This is not an anti-american post or an attack on the US or a US-Canada war. It just so happens that I live in Canada and had to go to the US for the test, that's it!

    -My ire remains because I feel they should inform people properly about other potential fees or charges and should be clear. It takes a small extra breath and maybe 3 seconds to say:

    "The cost of the test is 500$ and there will also be a consultation charge when you see the doctor"

    "Really, other charges, how much?"

    "Probably around 200$"

    "thank you"

    Why is that so hard to do????

    -Again, you fail to comprehend: I'm not whining...I am having a "discussion" and debate about healthcare costs and the way they are handled and/or explained to patients in the healthcare system based on the experience I've had in a "discussion" forum called "health and fitness". I did not appreciate being charged 700$ when I was told it would cost 500$ and I bought it up on here to obtain clarification and get opinions from other intelligent users of this forum.

    -Percentage risks have a merit because it is what led my wife to become insanely obsessed and stressed about this

    -When I bring my Ferrari into the shop, I do indeed ask how much it will cost for a repair. However, the shop I deal with it has the decency to quote me a price including his labor and doesn't just tell me a price based on the cost of the part and leave me guessing about the rest. He is clear and precise and treats his customers with respect like I do with mine. He also has never sent me a bill in the mail for 40% more after I paid him and picked up my car.

    -As for the test, you don't know me nor do you know my wife so you don't know what we would have done had we been told it would cost 700$. You can't know because I don't even know myself and I guess we'll never know because.......well........I WAS NEVER TOLD 700$!!!!!!!!
     
  3. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

    Dec 17, 2007
    10,263
    NY Metro
    #53 ScuderiaWithStickPlease, Feb 12, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
    You seem to take it for granted that there are huge profits being made in medicine. Fact is that, as a percentage of revenue generated, there aren't. Fact is the profit motive, coupled with total power of the purse returned to the patient (MSAs + catastrophic + undoing regulation that seeks to artificially homogenize the field + as the last step, doing away with punitive damages) would slash costs and increase quality as per the market's preferences -- not yours or mine, not the politicians', not some out of control bureaucracy's or regulator's, not some detached ethic of equality that has absolutely nothing to do with the human experience.

    So you'd rather have the brightest and the best, the most talented and passionate, the actual doers that stand between humanity and a life of serfdom, focus their careers on things like squeezing a millions songs on an ipod that's embedded in your ear than working in healthcare?

    The market balances things out perfectly -- unless, of course, you're looking for healthcare equity, at which point everyone gets crappy healthcare, which is where we've been heading since FDR's nonsense more or less forced employers to start offering medical insurance as part of employee compensation so they could compete for the most skilled workers during the War, forever altering the average American's relationship with his employer, physician, healthcare facilities and government.

    It doesn't work. It has never worked. It will never work.
     
  4. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

    Dec 17, 2007
    10,263
    NY Metro
    treedee3d,

    It seems you got snagged on what people in the US consider common knowledge. While it would've been nice if the people you dealt with understood your context, that is, that as someone from outside the US you may not understand the need for a consult, they're no more guilty of anything because they couldn't relate to your context than you are for not relating to theirs.

    The doctor did work on your behalf. This is a contextual issue, not one of bad intentions, dishonesty or even incompetence. Write a few letters, for sure, but pay the man for his time, expertise and whatever liabilities he either assumed by ordering the test and/or undertakes by virtue of being a physician at this point in time.

    Just an opinion.
     
  5. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
    Honorary Owner

    Mar 21, 2004
    19,809
    Northern CA
    Full Name:
    Yin
    You got called on it because you chose to follow on with how "intelligent" the discussion was and how "intelligent" the people were until italiafan's post. The contrast you chose to apply made the comment personal. As far as complaining about someone using a word in the same manner you're attempting to use as an excuse ("used the word to emphasize how wrong it was"), talk about whining ... :rolleyes:
     
  6. treedee3d

    treedee3d F1 Rookie

    Apr 1, 2011
    3,721
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Fab
    Lol, ok I tought you got hung up on the word "idiotic", my mistake....no worries. Appreciate the clarification, I apologize for that and I will refrain from making such comments in the future. Thank you for your input, no problem, I will comply immediately by the guidelines.
     
  7. treedee3d

    treedee3d F1 Rookie

    Apr 1, 2011
    3,721
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Fab
    I don't see why this courtesy, respect and "being clear" can't be offered to everyone, not just an outsider from Canada. Especially when you consider how easy it is to explain or communicate instead of needing to play this "guessing game".

    I still disagree with your opinion but I respect your post and explanation even if it's not what I wanted to hear, what you say is rather convincing and makes complete sense.

    Nice to see we can have interesting discussions on here even when there is a dissagreement. thank you
     
  8. drgek

    drgek Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2004
    1,142
    Full Name:
    Gary
    Not to derail this, but this whole thread brings up another interesting issue:

    You wanted a test that the Canadian government decided was unnecessary to provide. So you sought it out; kudos to you for being willing to pay for it. But in the US people who demand unnecessary services get them anyway because there is just no way in our system to say no. They have very little financial stake in the game. And this, Mr. Bourne, is the major reason for insane health care costs: insatiable demand of the US population for health care, combined with a tort system (whether you want to acknowledge it or not) threatening to punish anybody who says no. Until we control demand, we cannot control costs. That is paramount to rationing, which is an important discussion (albeit completely unpalatable) that needs to be carried out in this country. Neither party has the political will to do it.

    And one other point to those who think a single party payer (aka the government) is the solution: in the US, healthcare costs parallel that of nearly all developed countries until the age of about 62, which is when the excess spending in the US begins to take off. The vast majority of that spending in excess of the rest of the world is under Medicare, the government program.
     
  9. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
    Honorary Owner

    Mar 21, 2004
    19,809
    Northern CA
    Full Name:
    Yin
    Explaining US billing or healthcare practices is fine here, however if you're going to take this in the direction of US healthcare policy, then I will have to delete posts or move this thread into P&R. Which action will be taken I will leave up to the OP.
     
  10. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,192
    when patients have lower and lower out of pocket expense, the more tests and treatment they want. with less out of pocket expense, patients have less incentive to stop unheathy habits. and they will not settle for anything but the best option available, no matter how much YOU have to pay for it. low out of pocket expenses mean theyre spending other peoples money. thats why we have high medical costs.
    ed
     
  11. Vinny Bourne

    Vinny Bourne Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2011
    910

    No policy, just a couple observations

    I agree to a certain extent; if people were the ones reaching into their pocket at every medical encounter then there would be a major change going on, doc's getting an earful. That is happening now anyways in a slower manner as health ins premium costs keep escalating out of control, which will result in changes in the names on the roster of congress.

    However THE major reason for this problem was pointed out by me in the general discussion section, LeMans movie thread. Watch that movie and look carefully at the public in all the real world scenes. NO FAT people. Not many diabetics, hypertension, or cardio problems walking around there in comparison to today. These long term chronic lifestyle diseases are doing most of the damage and their side effects.
     
  12. Vinny Bourne

    Vinny Bourne Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2011
    910
    I really wouldn't classify the majority of the folks in medicine that I have met as the best and brightest. I think those people are conducting studies or in Labs. I've met quite a few hacks who didn't know jack and were proven wrong at great cost.
     
  13. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

    Dec 17, 2007
    10,263
    NY Metro
    As you must know, socializing the field will impact everyone. So no matter where the geniuses are or, more importantly, where they would be if the system was allowed to run free, is almost irrelevant.
     
  14. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

    Dec 17, 2007
    10,263
    NY Metro
    I know what you mean. But we all take advantage of what's implied or reasonably assumed, all day every day.
     
  15. drgek

    drgek Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2004
    1,142
    Full Name:
    Gary
    My apologies

    Mr. Bourne, I am quite proud of my profession and the people in it. I wonder what your background is that has led you to so many negative opinions about physicians. Perhaps you'd care to share with us what you do other than reading 2000 page copies of legislation and studying medical malpractice trends.
     
  16. treedee3d

    treedee3d F1 Rookie

    Apr 1, 2011
    3,721
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Fab
    As the OP, my point in all of this wasn't to engage in a government efficiency debate, Canada vs US comparisons or the pros and cons of the American Medical system.

    My point was that when dealing with a professional whether he's a doctor, mechanic, roofer, tailor, whatever...why is it so hard to get the proper information on pricing and should the person being billed after the fact for a different amount be forced to pay?

    If you go see a tailor to get a suit made and he quotes you his price, isn't it normal for you to assume that he's taken into account the material, his time and that the final price includes everything and you'll get a complete suit after paying that amount?

    There may be some people and shady professions you deal with in life where you may expect this sort of thing to happen but in a profession like medicine, I just don't get how one can't be informed properly?
     
  17. Vinny Bourne

    Vinny Bourne Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2011
    910
    #67 Vinny Bourne, Feb 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The background part as pertains to medicine -- long, detailed, and somewhat unique. Things I do, I was the best at what was my main interest in life and these days have plenty of time to indulge in other things, which include being well informed on topics of interest. Going further than that would prove counter productive in this medium.


    Just by happenstance I ventured over to the CBS news site last night to see the one of the B&B in her field and low and behold I find an interview that PROVES everything I have been saying;


    A screen cap that graphically demonstrates the pricing problem and shows how some hospital systems are just ripping everyone off, the country as a whole. An MD was presenting the results of this study that shames the medical industry;
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. Vinny Bourne

    Vinny Bourne Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2011
    910
    courtesy cbsnews;

    Some hospitals charge 10 times more than others: report

    February 12, 2013 6:22 AM

    A new report reveals a staggering difference in the cost of medical procedures, depending on where you go for treatment. Dr. Kavita Patel, of Johns Hopkins Hospital, talks to Charlie Rose and Norah O'Donnell about health care.



    Some hospitals charge 10 times more than others: report - CBS News Video
     
  19. Under PSI

    Under PSI F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2005
    4,240
    Phoenix
    Full Name:
    Jim
    It's here too:

    How much will surgery cost? Good luck finding out - Health - Health care | NBC News
     
  20. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,192
    trying to find out how much a certain surgical procedure costs is like asking "how much should it cost to paint my ferrari?"
    why is there no standard paint job fee?
    ed
     
  21. treedee3d

    treedee3d F1 Rookie

    Apr 1, 2011
    3,721
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Fab
    #71 treedee3d, Feb 13, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
    True, but shouldn't there be a reasonable ball park amount?

    If a repaint costs between 8 to 14k and suddenly someone quotes 35k out of the blue, there's something off...

    Once you get your price for the repaint, you agree, get it done, pay the bill, go home.

    2 weeks later the bodyshop sends you a bill for an additional 40%, how would you react to that?
     
  22. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,192
    get real. nobody increased your bill 400%
    ed
     
  23. treedee3d

    treedee3d F1 Rookie

    Apr 1, 2011
    3,721
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Fab
    Never said 400%, I said 40% which is the difference between 500$ to 700$
     
  24. Vinny Bourne

    Vinny Bourne Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2011
    910
    Total baloney. A surgery is a surgery, replace the hip. Period. Your analogy is ridiculous. Come on, I can save money on a paint job by doing the dis-assembly and re-assembly myself. Can I cut myself open and sew myself back up? Let me know when car painters become a national outfit that homogenizes training across all training/learning institutions and restricts who can get in and get licensed.

    Also the people doing this study and the Doctor presenting the results aren't noobs. It's an industry out of control that needs a rude awakening.

    a famous attorney on medical industry pricing policy

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHPjPcmn2_s]Seinfeld - Jackie Chiles - YouTube[/ame]
     
  25. ScuderiaWithStickPlease

    ScuderiaWithStickPlease F1 World Champ

    Dec 17, 2007
    10,263
    NY Metro
    And just like that you undo the checks and balances inherent in a free market, unleashing statism on doctors and patients.
     

Share This Page