Unobtainium Supplies: 4V (QV/328) Air Injection plugs | FerrariChat
Buy

Unobtainium Supplies: 4V (QV/328) Air Injection plugs

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Verell, Dec 23, 2009.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Page 1 of 2
  1. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #1 Verell, Dec 23, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
    I've got a request to make a set of air injector hole plugs for a QV, they would also fit a 328. I'm wondering if there's enough interest for me to run off more than a single set, I'd relly like to see interest in 8-10 or more sets in order to get the price down to about where the 2V sets are.

    These would be 4V equivalents of the plugs I've been supplying for 2V engines. See most recent posts to this thread:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221686

    So who would like to replace their air injectors with brass plugs & eliminate the problems associated with unused air injectors?

    As this is would be modifying your emissions control system, The usual caveat about "for track use only" applies. ;^)
     
  2. Speedmade

    Speedmade Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 31, 2004
    387
    Minneapolis, MN
    Full Name:
    Reed H
    #2 Speedmade, Dec 23, 2009
    Verell,
    I will take a set of those. These would also fit the 348 as well (I've compared them to the 308QV ones).
    Reed H
     
  3. SeattleM5

    SeattleM5 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 9, 2006
    1,259
    Kirkland, Washington
    Full Name:
    Ettore Palazzo
    #3 SeattleM5, Dec 24, 2009
    I'll take a set for a 328 if the price is as stated in the 2V thread.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #4 Steve Magnusson, Dec 24, 2009
    Verell (or anyone else) -- Any chance you can post a photo for the US '84-'85 308QV/328 overall exhuast port arrangement similar to this one for a US 1983 308QV?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Since the US '84-'85 308QV/328 stock part (121718) is "nozzle-less", I'd be very interested to see how the flow enters into the exhaust port -- is it just a bare hole? TIA, if possible.
     
  5. jeffhall009

    jeffhall009 Rookie

    Dec 24, 2009
    5
    #5 jeffhall009, Dec 25, 2009
    Its a nice explanation and was very helpful for me. Thanks for this.
     
  6. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    17,697
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    #6 bpu699, Dec 28, 2009
    Silly question...but why wouldn't a short bolt do, to plug these up? I understand brass won't corrode. But aren't all of the bolts entering our cars aluminum blocks steel (head studs, and every other stud)? This area isn't exposed to liquids, so galvanic corrosion seems low risk.

    Just curious about this...
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #7 Steve Magnusson, Dec 28, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    One issue is that the head of a standard M14 or M16 bolt is going to be much larger and thicker than needed (and looks more "ugly" IMO ;)) -- because it is designed to be able to support the (huge) clamping load that that big thread size can generate when used as a bolt (standardized threaded hydraulic "plugs" typically have much smaller heads).

    The second issue is that many 308-2V users have reported an undesirable "whistling" noise if the plug doesn't have the short nose section to fill the hole where the nozzle passes thru. On a 328 this is probably a non-issue (as there is no nozzle in the stock arrangement), but removing this system from a US 328 makes no sense to me because it does not affect warm-running performance at all (which is unlike the 1983, and before, US 308).

    With all that said, others have reported using (headless) setscrews with no nose successfully (secured by Loctite) -- functionally, you could probably just fill the hole with JB Weld, but that wouldn't be greatest thing IMO ;)
     
  8. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,380
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    #8 BigTex, Dec 28, 2009
    One of my cars left the fitting in place sealing the tubing side wth JUST the right size ball bearing under the jam nut...points for cleverness, I thought....LOL!
     
  9. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #9 Verell, Jan 5, 2010
    So far I see serious interest from:
    Speedmade
    SeattleM5
    + my original requestor.

    I need to see at least 8 serious requests before I can place a CNC order.

    I hope to have pix of a 328 air injection setup later this week, have to take a 20 or so mile drive to see it.
     
  10. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,329
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    #10 smg2, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
    Pretty much it, I found that the 2V was the beneficial recipient and the 4V was only when one had modified the engine from stock for racing or boost with custom EFI.

    on the few 4V's I've done I ended up getting earls fittings as the cost to manufacture such low volume was not worth it. earls has power steering fittings in both M14 & M16 add a -6an cap and you're done.

    Part #'s for those interested:
    -6AN ~ M14x1.5 = 991954
    -6AN ~ M16x1.5 = 991955 or 961955 steel

    I'll add, I'm not trying to kill Verells order here. This is only if he doesn't get enough orders and you're on your own. The plugs Verell will make would be cleaner and better looking than 4 blue/red blister along the exhaust line, and cheaper too.
     
  11. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
    1,237
    Meadow Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    R Moseley
    #11 ramosel, Jan 5, 2010
    Soak those blue/red AN fittings in a strong solution of TSP and water - the color comes right off. Leave them in long enough and the raw fitting will go black.

    Rick
     
  12. veloce33

    veloce33 Karting

    Feb 4, 2009
    124
    Vandalia, OH
    Full Name:
    Shawn Hobbs
    #12 veloce33, Jan 6, 2010
    I would buy a set, as my rear bank air managment tube is cracked, and I have been unable to source a replacement.
     
  13. DANCER308

    DANCER308 Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2009
    935
    KY
    Full Name:
    Dan
    #13 DANCER308, Jan 29, 2010
    I'll take a set, if they will fit my '79 308.

    Dan
     
  14. DANCER308

    DANCER308 Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2009
    935
    KY
    Full Name:
    Dan
    #14 DANCER308, Jan 29, 2010
    Cancel that, I see that these are for QV's

    Dan
     
  15. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #15 Steve Magnusson, Jan 29, 2010
    Verell also has the air injector port plugs for the 308-2V heads -- he's still the right person to contact for plugs for your US '79.
     
  16. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Dec 7, 2003
    16,448
    Winston Salem, NC
    #16 Ricambi America, Jan 29, 2010
  17. LUCH

    LUCH Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
    30
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Karl
    #17 LUCH, Feb 12, 2010
    I've been reading this thread on the air injector plugs and am curious about what you guys are doing. Is this a performance enhancing issue? If so, I'd like to know what to do. Are you removing the air pumps etc. for maybe some extra HP. Or to eliminate some other problems ?

    thanks,
    LUCH
     
  18. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #18 Verell, Feb 16, 2010
    It looks like there are 4 people seriously interested. I've put them out for quote. I'll probably run off 5 sets, then see how interest goes before I order more.

    It'll probably take 4-5 weeks for them to be fabricated.
     
  19. MBFerrari

    MBFerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2008
    6,057
    NoVA
    Full Name:
    Matt B
    #19 MBFerrari, Feb 16, 2010
    V,
    Throw me in for a set if they are within reason on price. When I take my car to Competizione I will have them screw them in if they can...

    Thanks,
    MB
     
  20. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #20 Verell, Feb 17, 2010
    Karl,
    They're coming off for differing reasons:

    Some of the cars are being setup for tracking, air injection isn't needed, & they want to get rid of the weight.

    Others, the air injection manifolds are corroding thru and leaking a jet of hot exhaust gas. If one of the K-Jet plastic fuel lines is inline with that hot jet you get an engine compartment fire! I know of several cases of this happening, & a couple of near misses!

    Others just want to get rid of the engine compartment clutter by eliminating the air injection pump & plumbing.
     
  21. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #21 Verell, Apr 19, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
    I just finished a CAD drawing of the 4V air injection plugs & placed an initial order with my machinist. I expect delivery in May.

    Price looks like it's going to be very close to, possibly the same as, the 2V plugs.

    It's going to look just like a scaled up version of the 2V plugs. ie: M16x1.5 threads, head is 19mm across flats instead of 17mm. Nose is slightly larger & longer.

    For a picture of the 2V plugs, see this thread:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221686

    I'll post availibiltiy as soon as I get it from my machinist.

    If you want to ensure you get a set from the first batch, send PayPal for $124.55=$110/set of 8 + $14.55 S&I to [email protected].

    If the final price were to come in a higher than this, I'll send you a PayPal invoice for the difference.
     
  22. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #22 Verell, May 28, 2010
    UPDATE:
    I'm expecting the 1st mfg. run of 4V plugs late next week.

    It's just a bare hole, like what you'd get if the fitting didn't have a nozzle. I keep forgetting to take a pix when I'm near a 328 head.
     
  23. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2002
    2,544
    Suwanee Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Davison
    #23 jeffdavison, May 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #24 Verell, Jul 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    & Here's what you can fill those holes with:

    The production run of 4V Air Injection plugs finally came in!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    These plugs have M16 x 1.5 threads & fit 328s, later QV 308s, Mondial3.2, and 348s. See pictures below.

    You can now order them directly from Unobtainium Supply:

    Price is $110 + S&I for a set of 8 plugs.

    To order, click on my name by any of my posts & select [Send eMAIL to Verell].
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
    New England
    Full Name:
    David Feinberg
    #25 fastradio, Aug 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With a couple of QV engines in for overhauls, here's a shot of a completed cylinder head with the new plugs installed...Although getting the old AIR fittings and rails out can be a challenge, the new Unobtainium Supply plugs fit perfectly!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
Page 1 of 2

Share This Page