Unprecedented Ferrari bargains on the way...

Talk to your banker friends for repo deals or have a friend who has a used car dealers license and look at up comining auctions.

 

That is also what I have noticed, on many things. I have asked for quotes from good businesses that are slow (over the years) and I get by far the highest quotes from companies that really need the money. Obviously, they don't get the work so it is a lose-lose for them, but they can't see through the fog.

Jay

 

There will be some good deals on cars in the coming year or two. However, these are cars. They are meant to be driven. Buying a car, while counting the cost is a prescription for disappointment. Remember: these are toys. They cost money. Forgetting that point is painful.

Art

 

Banks do not want to keep these cars and want to get rid of them as fast as they can and are willing to liquidate them at a loss to avoid storage costs. Lots of things can happent to a luxury car in storage that will quickly bring the value down. I ran into a great deal on a DB9 that was repoed but took a test drive in the car and discovered that I realy was not an Aston guy. A friend of mine bought it ( $65,000)and is very happy with it and the bank was very happy to have the car only a couple of days even though they took a loss.

 

IMHO someone who can't keep up the payments stopped paying for repairs and upkeep a while ago. Caveat Emptor

 

I doubt you're gonna find a buyer who'll pay > $54k, so I guess your ride ain't movin' anywhere anytime soon.

Maybe I oughta sell my 328 and buy it back for 50% off next year from whomever will buy it from me. Kinda like shorting a stock...

 

I had a friend check the Manheim auction site - the largest used car marketplace in the country. There are 17 Ferrari cars for sale across the entire country as of tonight. 3 F430s, 5 or 6 360s, and a scattering of everything else. He also said that Ferrari cars typically don't come to auction - they are in high demand and don't need to be auctioned off. The ones that are auctioned often come from lease companies, who sell the cars when the lease is over.

He said that prices have held well, and he doesn't see any "panic" out there - at least for now.

In my case I'm interested in a 328. I visited a high quality independent dealer three weeks ago, and he offered that to find a "very nice" 328 will cost $50K, and about double that for a 550. The 328 is above the FML asking price levels, the 550 a bit below. He sees a shrinking number of 328s available, at least "quality" cars. He also thinks the 550 market is "close" to a bottom, but may not be quite there yet.

So if the market is about to correct, where will the selling come from? The older cars are not likely to be under lease, so they will probably not be liquidated. The newer cars may, but since they are at such a premium, how far down will they go? Don't know, and I don't think anyone else really knows either. If the world ends, and my future 328 drops by 25%, hopefully, the 550 will do the same, and I may trade up.

For now, I'm torn. On one hand I may save $5-10K by waiting. On the other, a good car is a good car, and if one is available what is gained by waiting?

 

I think that prices will fall on all cars in the short term. I do think if the economy doesn't straighten out prices will fall more. I also have been predicting that new buyers may hold off and new car demand will fall. The price increase of new cars , up 30k or so, will start the slow down not including the recession.

 

17 Fcars for sale in the US? You don't really believe that do you?

I spent the better part of the weekend looking at the market. My assessment is that sellers who've had their cars on the market for over a few months, and there are dozens, are starting to get the picture and realize they missed the peak. A few asked me not to talk about the reduced prices they are now asking.

Other sellers are holding onto delusional prices. They don't want to talk about the cars that didn't sell at the RM auction or the low prices of most that did. That auction reset highs for several models.

For anyone looking to buy, unless it seems like a really good deal, wait a few months. When car season is over, repo numbers continue to rise, Dems close in on the White House and the depth of the recession is understood, you'll feel like a kid in a candy store.

 

That's my plan.

 

I've noticed that in cars, land, lawnmowers, and everything else these days. People are dreamers. The classified ads in the local paper are always good for a few laughs from people trying to sell their used $600 generators for $550, or their 4 door "collectible" 1966 Chevy with low miles for $5000. Insane. The last bargain that I got was a gas powered leaf vacuum for $125 that runs like a champ.

 

True, prices will go down on many models, they are going down now. However, if you find the perfect car, as a collector, then keep an eye on it and buy it. There is a big difference between buying a 330 GTC compared to a 360 Modena. 330 GTC's don't show up often, and a good car that is properly restored and sorted out is hard to find. There are many more Modenas on the market and several others will show up. So it depends on what you are looking for, I suppose.

When the big downturn in F car prices took place in the early ninetees, I wanted a 275 GTB/4, and passed on several on the way down. Alas, when they bottomed, I couldn't find the car I really thought was a correct one. Lesson learned.

 

I happened to be at The Lake of the Ozarks this weekend, a popular resort area for KC and STL residents to have a second home and water toys. I liken a Ferrari to a big boat: expensive to own and operate, and bought by many to impress others as much as to enjoy for its performance. Keep in mind that this area hasn't really been hit with massive home devaluations either...

I have been going there for years, and can assure you that boat traffic is WAY down. The report I read was down 25% from last year, but it seems like even more. On top of that there are huge boat lots, some of them that have just appeared seemingly overnight to accomodate the numbers, of boats sitting for sale new and used. All price ranges and sizes, although the $200k+ models seem to be the most plentiful. On a beautiful Saturday afternoon there should be some traffic at these dealers...there was none. Nada, zero.

If you believe that the customer base for $200k boats and $100k used Ferraris is basically the same, it doesn't bode well for either. There will always be some that can afford it, and with the dollar weak European collectors may find it cheaper to buy here and ship abroad to partially strengthen prices in the US, but overall the softening seems likely to continue.

 

a most excellent point, methinks!

 

This will be true in some cases but not in others. In my experience many live large until the last dime is gone.

For maintenance issues I worry about the barn finds where the widow has sat on a car for 10 years without touching it except to let the kids take it for a spin.

 

I might be able to offer some insight here...The cars that normally end up at the Manheim, are cars that have not sold in the normal places that we exotic dealers wholesale inventory....They may have more miles, not fully optioned, be off colors, missing tools or not complete cars. As of tonight I list 8 360's on one of the normal sites we dealers use and of that 1 is a coupe, and 1 is a car needed. The rest are spiders...as for 430's 2 430's at broker listings for wholesale, 13 cars needed..the prices on the 430's on the wholesale are steady....and show levels for cars needed for stock is high at 13. If you can name a rep. exotic dealer in the US they are on these networks..

The lease companies in genral use these same 2 wholesale dealer networks first before the manheim sale!

But, Monday I will post a new and current database price sheet....

Heres what I have as of today, this is according to our own asking price index. See, about 2 years ago, it was tuff to discover the true market price on Lamborghini Murcielago's based on the sources that ware avabile to most dealers. Many just relayed on what there gut told them! So I being a numbers guy, decided to hire a full time employee to track the cars market price, and then based on the avg. diffrence between what Lambo's asking is and what they sold for. On avg. a murice had a diffrence between asking price and sold for amount around 2.43% or around $5,000. So the long of the short is we built a very nice database, with vin#'s of almost all the Murcielago's, Diablo's and recently in the last year 360's. And we now we have the asking price of every Murcie, Diablo's and 360 that have been advertised over the last 2 years. We track Dealership, color, and vin#, we pull Autocheck histories on all of them, and have a nice software product, called Car Catalog, that allows to see when a car that is the same, goes to a diffrent dealer, or is offered through some other source, huge miles increases, or miles being offered lower between sources! In the wholesale networks, the guys there always joke with me, because when they have a 360, Diablo, or Murcie pop up, they call me to offer the car, but I always know the car first! So it has became a great value to me as a dealer. Just to understand what is truly moving and for what price, based on industry standards.

We do what we call in house a "asking price index"! Simliar to that of the market letter, but we do year by year break downs, (which gets intresting with MY02's and MY03's) miles break downs, story cars, missing and autocheck alerts, colors, and options. Also we track tax and license information state by state, we can not get your adress but we can see how many have been registared and the tax paid.... Everyday we update new cars, and see if any cars have moved, and if a car like this coupe has been on the market longer then 60 days we call the dealer to see if the car is still there.

I looked at only the 360 Spiders for example and found there has been 54 cars offered on the market over the last 90 days, but basicaly the prices of fallen 2.87% over the last 90 days, take another 2.43% diffrence in asking and true selling number and have the current true market! If anyone would like to see the database for the MY01's only feel free to PM me..and I can fax you a copy....

Now for financing ...Over the last 2 years I have financed many customers and the banks I work with require 2 years tax returns, income statements, 25% down as well as good credit score with debt-to-income no more then 12%...The people that are financing are doing it not because they can not afford it, but rather out of pocket is less...there is no such thing as stated income in dealer financing...if you could not afford the car the banks would deny the loan..happens all the time!

Now I will say that there is a middle ground there based on income and credit score, along with number of $100k cars owned in the past...but these are few and far between...In some cases unless you have had an exotic car or 2 in the past we could not get you approved...or it was alot harder.

With Ferrari I agree if with No doubt when he said this in another thread here at fchat and applys to this topic:

 

What you say would be interesting if it was just based on closed deals. Asking prices are irrelevant due to what one poster calls the dreamers.

On F40s this weekend, I saw a price difference of over a quarter million on similar cars. Same on Enzos. On the models of lesser price and interest, the asking prices are really laughable.

How about an index solely based on closed deals-the taxes paid to register the cars?

 

We have to track both asking price and true selling price. If we do not then we can not get a true picture of what is going on in the market. 2.43% is the avg. diffrence in asking price and true selling price, or $5,000.

It was around 90% but this year more have been paying cash. Most when financed put 25% or more down, provide 2 years tax returns, income statements, just like getting a home loan...Debt to income is a big deal to the lenders I work with, as well as beacon score and past exotic cars owned...these loans are not easy to to get, but thoughs who do, enjoy no mile restriction, no pre-payment pentlies, and can trade up or down and pay off anytime they want. Since Ferrari and Lamborghini are not going to lose 25% or more of there value during the loan, they are safe risk for the lenders...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2006-Lamborghini-Gallardo-E-Gear-Coupe-Low-Price_W0QQitemZ220247210841QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220247210841&

 

Thanks for the peak behind the curtain. Its fascinating to see the similarities and differences between the exoticar market and the more "traditional" ones. As my search becomes more focused those dealers who are more open are the ones I'm most apt to trust.
David

 

Hey Jim, same guys-doubt they'll get it Buy it now:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2007-FERRARI-599-GTB-FIORANO-F1-LOW-MILES-LOW-PRICE_W0QQitemZ220249188804QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220249188804&

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-GTB-Fiorano-2007-FERRARI-599-GTB-FIORANO-F1-LOW-MILES-LOW-PRICE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ6212QQihZ012QQitemZ220247211491QQtcZphoto

That's pretty close to MSRP for the car, not very many options. Early 07.

 

From what I've seen in the last few months, the difference between aing and selling price is often twenty or thirty percent. There are folks, for example, asking $700K for an F40 that is most probably going to sell in the 5s.

Still don't understand why asking prices are part of the index though I love the idea of your index.

 

It doesn't hurt to keep track of asking prices, and can be a good tool to have when considering a car.