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unsteady timing

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 78-308gt4, Aug 19, 2009.

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  1. Modeler

    Modeler F1 Veteran

    May 19, 2008
    7,330
    State of confusion
    Full Name:
    a.n.other
    Since no one has responded, I'll try.

    My guess is that the warning refers to the possibility of "pinging", premature detonation of the combustion charge triggered by dieseling or hot spots in the combustion chamber rather than the spark plug firing.
    Its accompanied by a quite distinctive sound in the engine and nothing you've said so far suggests you're experiencing either pinging or its more damaging cousin knocking.

    I find setting point gap with feeler gauges a very hit and miss affair. Always use a dwell meter to check the result and do it again until you hit the correct gap measured in degrees open on the meter. Only then can you move on to timing the ignition without the possibility of the kind of issue you describe as the spark breaks down at the points at high revs.
    A dwell meter isn't costly and should be bought along with any timing light, as the light is redundant without the meter, imho.
     
  2. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
     
  3. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    OK, loosen the set screws, move the plate, tighten the screws, readjust point gap.

    You would be amazed at the difficulty I've had in locating a dwell meter here in Memphis...

    NAPA: not in stock but could order one

    Advance: not in stock, barely had a clue what I was talking about

    O'Reilly: see above

    AutoZone: Memphis is their corporate HQ - 4 stores visited - only one had a dwell meter in stock, you could tell it had been sitting around for a LONG time. I'll drop by again and pick it up today.
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,212
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Well, it's obsolete technology after all....LOL!
     
  5. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    just switch them out? My rotors are the narrow kind but oddly enough one is more narrow than the other by about 30%! Both have the marelli logo stamped on them.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,121
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #31 Steve Magnusson, Sep 2, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
    Yes, the QV part (124288) will directly fit the US carbed twin distributors.

    Interesting find about the "different" narrow rotors. AFAIK that hasn't come up here before -- can you post pics? Always possible that they increased the width before again increasing the width further on the 124288 part.
     
  7. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    #32 78-308gt4, Sep 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,121
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Thanks -- alignment of that uber-skinny one on the left better be "perfect" :)
     
  9. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    I'll end up replacing them soon.

    Can a set of coils that aren't quite up to the task also induce a high rpm miss? It may not be my particular issue but while I'm learning I have questions.

    Thanks for all your help!
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,121
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    I guess they could, but the 308 dual coil arrangement is much less demanding than a design using a single coil on a V8 (like most 1930-70 US cars -- although these don't go to quite such high RPM). Since each 308 coil is doing only 1/2 the work, it has more time between firing events than a single coil at the same RPM.
     
  11. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    I have both rotors in their proper position, dwell set at 40-41 on both banks, and timing is now rock steady. The car starts and runs beautifully until close to redline when it starts to stumble. As the car reaches full operating temp the stumble occurs at progressively lower rpms.

    It seems heat is the variable affecting engine performance. I'm at a loss where to go next with this issue.
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,121
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #37 Steve Magnusson, Sep 10, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2009
    Some questions:

    1. Same rotors or different rotors?

    2. Are you saying that the RPM where the stumble occurs now is a little higher than it was before?

    3. When you have the stumble occur, does the timing light still also show no spark?

    4. When you have the stumble occur, does the dwell on each bank still measure OK?
     
  13. Beta Scorpion

    Beta Scorpion Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2006
    1,336
    Bad coil will give poor spark as the coil body physically heats up.
     
  14. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    The problem seemed to have cured itself....

    I've noticed over the years that my car is pretty sensitive to ambient temp as it relates to air density. As the weather has cooled here in Memphis the upper rpm misfire has disappeared.

    I'm wondering if the plugs were getting gas fouled - less dense air making the mixture too rich.

    60 idle
    140 mains
    F36
    195 AC

    I do experience from time to time the transition stumble so many other carbd owners have, but I find if I use more throttle the stumble goes away.
     

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