So, now that it appears we've all moved on... Can I gently ask that we return to our regularly scheduled post #108? Paul bumped this thread forward with important thought and question. He's put what appears to be quite a bit of time trying to figure this stuff out. Stuff I don't have answers for but that has impact to me as well. Can we fall back and pick up where Paul was? Thanks!
Hey just happened across this thread-been making these for my 308 race engines for the last 10 years with no problems-currently out of stock but a new batch will be ready in 6-8 weeks and will then fix prices if any body wants them.I also have drawings for 328 and Testa Rossa pulleys. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Okay guys here's the list of part numbers to model. it's in a excel formatt. these pullies also are used by the 512 BB/i and 365 GT4/BB, 288GTO and 208 turbo. I haven't crossed over yrs to part number on them yet. if you try and cross reference by part number it'll get you screwed up as the documentation supersedes itself with out being correct. hope this helps. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Excuse my ignorance here, but reading back I am a bit confused on this thread. What exactly is on the market and at what price, and from whom? Obviously I haven't followed this....but interested. So any help to us less informed?
Scott McGehee (smg2) designed and now manufactures the sprocket set shown in the pictures in post 121 above. In addition to providing the ability to easily manipulate timing, they also utilize a more modern belt profile that pushes the belt replacement interval out to about 600 years / 2 million miles. Whichever occurs first, of course... I would contact Scott directly for additional info. I have no knowledge of what George has produced. But there are quite a few things in that picture above I want to know more about!
George C., I may be interested in a set, depending on your pricing. I have a late-1977 308 GTB USA model, #23227.. Let us know.. Greg
Looks like the same old original OEM belt with straight aluminum pulleys. Sorry, but its not gaining anything over the stock pulleys other than being prettier and maybe slightly lighter, unless thier adjustable.
Right, and even if they ARE adjustable, I want the added benefit of Scott's, which utilizes newer, more robust belt design than the 20-30 year old style of the stock belts.
I seem to remember in that thread that these new items were individually constructed so the majority of the cost was in the time,.........something like $10K. I also do not know if the belts were yet designed, although it shouldn't be that hard. The issue is how many does one make for cam pulleys that aren't in mass production? Belts would probably be expensive as well. There was also the issue of testing the new design before selling them.
the belts are a new design but being used by mitsubishi for the Evo. so they are off the shelf, depending upon location i.e. Napa etc they run about $16~$25 per belt. the original run thru sold at $1200 per set, these due to cost increase on materials and labor will be around $1500 per set, which this time will include the belt as I can get them wholesale direct now. I have just over 20k miles on mine and they are still going strong with zero problems. Gates designed the life of the belt for 100k miles.
Gates has added a new racing belt to the lineup, it's only available right now for the 2v as it's a longer belt than the 4v. check out the link http://napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=NBH&PartNumber=HXR201&Description=Belt+-+Camshaft so for those keeping track here are part #'s for the belts per model. 2v: Napa # 250201 HXB201 - racing vs blue HXR201 - racing vs red Gates # T201 T201RB T201RR 4V: Napa# 250288 Gates # T2088
Scott, I was going thru my private Fchat archives & came across this in Ed Gault's thread about his new cam system: Isn't this comment relevant to your system's design as well? I'm starting my major service, & will be finally installing the new belt system I purchased from you way back when.
in talking with Gates, there should be no difference in the tension needed. in fact most of the new timing belt designs use a very high tension spring vs the one we have. hope that helps.
I would think the setting tension on the belt to be of almost minimal significance unless at the extremes of tension. I would imagine the running engine torque pulling the belt over the tensioner should put far greater strains on the belt, especially at low engine speed.
Scott, Thanks for clarifying about belt tension. Brought it up because I didn't remember it being discussed on any of the new belt system posts. Paul, The tensioner is actually under minimum pressure from the belt when the engine is accelerating the cams. The engine is pulling on the long straight section to accelerate & rotate the cams counterclockwise, so max belt tension is between the drive gear & the 2 cam gears. Any slack in the belt will be on the belt section around the tensioner pulley. Or were you just referring to the fact that the belt would be being bent around the tensioner at a fairly sharp angle while traveling at fairly high speed?
well for some reason the powers that be felt it necessary to delete the thread. so I'll just add it here and hope that those interested see it. My hats off to luckydynes, he worked his magic and machined the pulleys. looks great! I have 20 sets in total, 10 per model; 308 & 328 cost comes in at $1500 per set. here's some quick pics, fresh from the box. I still need to add the hardware. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Oooh those look nice. Now i have to see what kind of funds i'll have after my gearbox/engine rebuild. Scott, you doing payment plans??
MODERATOR NOTE: We're going to treat this stuff like Verell's and "tolerate" it as a low-volume non-sponsor... Scott, we appreciate the innovation here, and that you made some extra sets of this unique stuff you're making for yourself!
Sorta. Actually I was imagining the rising and falling tension as the cams flip over out of sequence with the power pulses coming from the crankshaft. At idle speed it must throw some pretty dramatic loads on the timing drive system, much more than at higher speeds.
Hmm, possibly, My SWAG is that the dynamic peaks would be at higher engine RPM as the valves are being accelerated to much higher velocities as each lobe lifts them. Just a gut as I don't have any way of simulating the dynamic loading tho.
Okay I've had some requests for the earlier carb'd 308's. here's the thing, there are 3 versions of the lower drive pulleys and 2 versions of the cam pulleys. the lower drive pulleys were design changes to the timing case. and the difference in the cam pulleys is the 308/328 cams. I have made 10 sets each for the 308 and 328, however on the 308 it's for the late carb'd thru i. If there are some sets available out of the 308 ones I can have new lower drives made for the early carb'd 308's. but as of right now I don't have any available for them. Ferrari tracked the change by crankcase numbers but that seems to have been an iffy documentation as well. the crankcase numbers are some where in the thread, I'll digg them up and post again. I can get the belts too to make it a one stop deal. let me check on availability for that many belts.
Scott, Gates cross - references the NAPA NBH 250288 to a Gates T288 which is the belt for a Mitsubishi Mirage 1997-02 1.8L 4-Cyl. Belts are available from: Gates T288 - RockAuto.com for $ 25.79 or NAPA NBH 250288 for $42.49! The Gates T288 description looks correct, so is T2088 a typo?
