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Update Discussion re Daytona Tires

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by wilkie, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. wilkie

    wilkie Karting

    Apr 15, 2005
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    Wilkie Cheong
    Hello,

    It's time for new tires for my Daytona, and I think this discussion needs to be updated in light of what is or is not available now. I am currently running 235/60x15 front and 255/60x15 rear on 8.5" and 9" Borranis. I am aware of the debate between original/classic design versus modern technology, but nowadays it seems the choices are more limited to what's available (and cost has to be a factor too). I see that Pirelli P600s are available from Tire Rack in 235/60x15, but not 255/60x15. Any suggestions or great ideas?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #2 miurasv, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
    You could use the Michelin XWX 225/70 VR15 on the front and back. See link here.

    Another suggestion would be the Pirelli CN12 as used on the Aston Martin V8 Vantage and Lamborghini Miura SV, HR60 VR15 all around which are 255/60 VR 15 in size. See link here.

    Your speedo will be out using non standard size tyres.
     
  3. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    First of all, what type of driving you do with car and how many miles annually ? 1000 ? 5000 ?
    Why is the cost a factor and in reference to what ?
     
  4. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    I would look at Longstone Tyres in the UK. They have all sorts of vintage Michelin and Pirelli tires. I just received some XWXs for my Mercedes 300SEL from them-- the only annoyance is that they were hung up in customs for about a week and DHL kept sending me irrelevant forms.

    One very important thing when buying unusual tires, that I've learned from unfortunate past experiences, is to have the seller verify the date codes. There is no point in buying 5 year old "new" tires. Longstone is very good about this.

    On a Daytona, I would stick with XWXs. The car and tire were developed together, and the suspension relies on the soft, thick sidewall as part of the geometry. Once you change that, you have to start making other changes as well.
     
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  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    How heavy is the steering with the bigger wheels and tyres?
     
  6. wilkie

    wilkie Karting

    Apr 15, 2005
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    miurasv and donv, thanks for your input. I considered the XWX's, but as indicated in the specs for the tire, it may be too narrow for my 9" rear wheels, although I do note that they have been used on 9" Ferrari wheels on Daytonas and Boxers. I have gotten used to the current 235/255 front/rear setup I have, but currently those sizes are not available, and definitely not in a V-rated or higher speed rating. I don't think the steering effort is appreciably heavier than in the other Daytonas I have driven. I may well have to downsize to the XWX's.

    TTR, I don't put a lot of miles on my Daytona, and I drive it usually late at night (when traffic is almost non-existent) on the streets for fun. I suppose I could safely mount new T, S or H-rated tires with the type of driving I do, but that would be blasphemous. My current tires actually still have plenty of tread, but they are getting quite old, and I don't want to risk a tire failure when I'm on the road, unlikely as it might be. As for cost, I know it may sound silly in considering the cost of tires on a car such as the Daytona, but my upbringing won't let me ignore things such things such as value and wasteful spending. Maybe that's just an excuse for being cheap.
     
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  7. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    o_O
     
  8. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Cost is always an issue, to a point. However, given the importance of tires and the relative cheapness of even expensive tires, I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor. If you spend $400/tire, that's $1600, and if you keep them on the car for 10 years, that's only $160/year. Even if you want to change them every 5 years, it's only $320/year. You probably spend more on gas.
     
  9. gcalex

    gcalex Karting

    Aug 16, 2010
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    I'm with Wilkie on the cost issue. If one is going to show the car (or just personally care a lot about originality), that is one thing, but if you just want a nice driving car saving money is always a desirable thing; Daytonas are expensive enough, without piling-on expenses... :)

    Me, I would go with the 235 P600s. The set-up would be non-staggered, but that is how the Daytona's were set-up anyway, so net-net you probably get a car that handled more as intended. 235s should be fine for both the front and rear rims. In fact I tried to get those tires for my car, but my mechanic gave me such a hard time about fitting incorrect tires, and I finally got tired of arguing about it and had him fit XWXs; I think he must have had a set in his warehouse that he wanted to unload...
     
  10. wilkie

    wilkie Karting

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    Thanks to all for the input. On a related subject, do you think a good "regular" tire/wheel shop would be OK to mount the new tires on Borranis? If not, do you have a recommendation for a place that is competent to do that in the Los Angeles area?
     
  11. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    I can't help you with LA, but I would go talk to the manager (better yet, owner) at the place you want to use and see if they've done similar things. If they've done wire wheels before, they should be fine. I use a local Tire Factory franchise, and I know the owner pretty well, and I've never had an issue. They even mounted my Model T wheel for me.
     
  12. johnaz

    johnaz Karting

    Nov 16, 2009
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    One should not leave tires on over 7 years max, regardless of tread. They get hard and handling is far worse, and risk of blowout is big with old tires.
    Change them and you will be amazed at what ride you got used to with old ones.
    An expensive car using tires older than 7 years is just bad idea.
    John
     
  13. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    #13 TTR, Aug 6, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
    + 1, except my limit, which I recommend to clients and friends is 5-6 years max.

    Just couple of days ago I had a phone conversation with a colleague/friend who few weeks ago, while taking a mint condition 15 year old super car with less than 1000 miles since new for short drive to get it smogged, crashed because couple of its original tires suddenly came apart at moderate highway speed.
    Yeah, tires had “looked like new”. He got pretty beat up and bruised, car likely totaled.
     
  14. wilkie

    wilkie Karting

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    I agree that driving on older tires is a risky proposition. That's why I'm replacing mine, although I would say that replacing them every 5 years may be a bit over doing it. I recall some years ago, one of the car magazines was road testing a vintage Italian exotic (Lambo, I think) that was still on its original tires (25+ years), due to the fact that replacements simply were not available. Still, they put the car through its paces. I was kinda surprised.
     
  15. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Driving, let alone putting an exotic, high performance vehicle through its paces with 25+ year old tires is not only dangerous but idiotic beyond comprehension.
    I assume the journalist involved was promptly fired and never allowed to get behind a wheel of another car to be featured in any magazine.
    What surprises me is the lack of sense by editors or publishers of such magazine allowing details like this to be published. I assume they didn’t last in the business either.
     
  16. wilkie

    wilkie Karting

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    Actually, I recall that the road testing was done with the permission and blessings of the car's owner, who accompanied the journalist throughout the test driving. I guess they really couldn't find any suitable replacement tires. In fact, when summarizing the "Pros" and "Cons" at end of the article, one of the "Cons" listed was "Tires are unavailable" or words to that effect.
     
  17. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    I go 8-10 years on my tires without problems. It certainly makes a difference when you change out the 10 year old tires!
     
  18. johnaz

    johnaz Karting

    Nov 16, 2009
    205
    Risky going that long. Discount tire will not work on any tire over 7 years old. Why take the chance and drive on hardened tires that can blow at any time? And handling and ride quality has gone long before 8-10 years.
     
  19. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    I have found that 8-10 years when the car spends most of it's life in a dark garage is not crazy. More than 10 years, yes, I agree. Parked outside most of the time or daily driver, 5-6 years is probably max. It's the UV exposure which does it.
     
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  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    I just replaced my tires on my BB, the old ones front ( 225/50 -15 ) have been from 1999 and the rear ones ( 345/35 -15 ) from 1996. always in a garage, sunlight only when driving.

    the profile still more than 4 mm but no cracks in the sidewall or elsewhere but very hard rubber what I feel on streets with bad asphalt when the rear wheels have been spinning or the front wheels sliding in curves. so with the new tires it is different like day and night. :)

    but the old ones I will mount on my second set of rims ( 3 pieces gotti ) for going on racetrack. there nothing can happen and when the tires get warm they also get soft again during having temperature and on a track new tires are to worthy to run them down.
     

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