Update on 348 Plenum Project

Just my 2 cents.

I think what you guys are doing is terrific. As someone that has a hard time leaving well enough alone of everything I own I applaud you. I have been reading and writting post for a bit over a year trying to understand what is possible with these cars, as far as mod's go. As far as gains and performance, if you look at other attempts vs $, you seem to have found something that most diy'er can attempt, (try building a set of headers or exhaust, maybe buy a $25K turbo kit). Keep up the great work, more pictures, and maybe the best reward will be seeing more of the brotherhood with you efforts in there cars in the near future

 

A few more stooge pics at Vince's.....
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Put simply, you guys are awesome!

Well done to all involved.

 

Smoothing and correcting are 2 very different things. The SAE correction simply corrects ambient conditions to SAE standard. The results are probably corrected, most places do that, but it's not printed on the sheet so it's worth asking. That was my only point.


Dynojet dynos tend to be VERY consistent run to run, but can and do very about +/- 2% day to day depending on a lot of things like the corrections being used, instrument placement and tire pressure is HUGE. The standard to be sure of small changes is to do all the runs the same day or better yet switch it back and forth a few times. It's the only way to be sure of small numbers, the graph is about the shape change I'd expect to see with no gains down lower and building with rpm....it's probably real but worth confirming that SAE correct was being used because that could cause the same result if it's not. The humidity is important, but temperature and pressure matter too. A storm moving in means low pressure moving in so it might be even better if it wasn't already corrected or a temperature or tire pressure change could erase it.

You guys are doing a great job, I mean that…it’s a cool project and you’re measuring the effect of each change. I think you’ll have some pretty solid gains by the time all your tweaks and tuning are done.

 

Yank the 4 screens!

Lower the resistance!

 

No need, the corrections for changes in ambient conditions are pretty stay forward and built into the dyno. You just need to ask if they were turned on when they printed the sheets...and they probably were and the numbers are good. The other thing is to be really careful about always checking the tire pressure before the dyno run and make sure it's always the same, it can change the number by a couple %.

 

Vince and Oz. Cool stuff. Thanks for the methodical approach that you are using here. We can then clearly identify the benefit each element would make. I think PAP posted a 18 hp improvement with the X-OST. Hopefully your custom exhaust wouold yield the same. I am sure high flow cats will help boost power more.

Plugz, did you dyno your monster?

 

Goth,

You seem to be offended by my statements. Mike is saying the same things I am saying but better. When you only have 4hp or 1.45% change you need to compare apples to apples and use the correction factors. that is why they made them. When you show the data that's fine but you do want to find out if it really is of value. I make the point of using correction factors and that's the only way I know to compare apples to apples. If you think your method flys that's fine it is not my project. Do a dyno search and learn all the things that make skewed results. I think it is very reasonalbe to ask if these gains are within the testing error. I'm not a scientist and I don't know what the dyno testing error is. But it is not unreasonable to question whether 1% is a reasonable number. From 6th grade we all learned you can only read 1/2 of the smallest increment on a ruler and be considered accurate to 1/2 a graduation. You read water level at the bottom of the miniscus. Well that's as much science as I know. It is easy to see the stick is about 2 ft long but more difficult to measure it at 23.685". I don't think the points raised here mine or Mike's are ridiculous. I guess I'll be banished from stoogedom...oh well I'll go back to racing.

 

Wow. I can't believe the pessimistic responses to this.


First off, the important thing to note is the torque output which is increased. Torque is real power, as opposed to HP which is calculated in many different ways, because it isn't really calculable. Torque will be consistent through and through.



Secondly, even if the gain was 4hp, that's pretty good given the following: 1. It's a mere intake mod. 2. There has been no further tuning to take advantage of the increased airflow. 3. The exhaust was left stock which will really affect final output.

What are you pessimists expecting? 40whp? You think you're gonna end up in 355 territory with simple air-restriction mods to a motor of this nature? Not a chance!


I would hope this entire project nets an additional 15-18whp at best. A lot of that is dependent upon the tuning done. Either way, that's a substantial amount of added power for the nature of the mods being done.


Tuners (or Stooges): Don't let the pessimists get to you. Just prove them wrong by doing another baseline and intake dyno on the same day, or simply complete the project, dyno it and show gains that can not even be argued with.



You guys are very inspiring and encouraging!! Bravo.

 

There is a member on this board named Ingenere who owns a company that specializes in ECU tuning, www.veloceperformance.com


He owns a 348 that he modified using his software and some other goodies. Makes really good power When you're done and you need tuning, I recommend you contact him!!!! He's a great guy!!

 

Hey Stooges...I only see 1 TPS on Vince's motor.

Is he running Motronic 2.5?

 

Good eye Shemp.

No Vince is running the 2.7. The intake that was modded was off of a 2.5. The throttle body you see with no throttle position sensor is off of the 2.5. The TBs were placed side by side to show the difference in the throttle openings. The stock throttle body opening is 54mm and Vince's TBs where ported out to 56.5mm. So that's what you are seeing.

 

Thanks, Ernie.


Oh, that bit of news means that I have a little present (well, two little presents that look quite a bit alike) for y'all.

 

Oh puuleeeeeeeeze. Banished from the Stooges, give me a break.

Everyone needs to just chill out.

Like the boys have pointed out, this is being done step by step so that we can see what modifications did what. We now know that smoothing out the intake runners, opening up the TBs, and putting in spacers will get you around 4hp, and that is without adjusting the MAFS. Next we will be able to see what adjusting the MAFS, and maybe even removing the MAF screens will yield, on top of the other mods. Then the next thing we'll see will be what the exhaust does, then the cats, and how about headers, etcetera. It will be a pretty neat to see how the power gains come along, and at what rate.

Everyone is curious to see what kind of gains can be made. Well we are hoping this will encourage other owners to see what they can do, and then share it. It's all for the benefit of the Brotherhood.

 

You're not going anywhere, you are going to be our friend whether you like it or not!!!!

Thanks !!!! The quest will continue!!!

Noted!

Yes we borrowed the intake from bruce for the runner mods...... and married it up to vince's top plenums and dual TPS TBs. So now I have vince's runners of which will be opened up a bit more than the one currently on he car. Though we will see if we have time to dyno just that small change or just dyno it with the new monster flow exhaust !!!!

+348!!!

 

hey you guys, Frankie says relax!

I love this development discussion and it has helped me in my porting and head work on my little 3.2 engine. Although I have a bit different target the concepts are the same and the discussion here is great, Just as a for instance, my former 3.2 'figure 8' ports now look like large 348 oval ports and I have also enlarged my feeding system (40mm to 44mm DCNF).

Many thanks and keep up the strong work - we're all learning a lot!

Here's pre and post:
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The Red Chips
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You

Have

No

Idea!



They aren't just chips...they are amazing.

 

What kind of gains would one see with just chip tuning and no mechanical changes to a standard 348 2.7 motor.... ??

 

No need for me to utter mere words when you could dyno test these babies to learn firsthand.


I left the idle alone. Increasing the revs past idle, however, is a new world.

I've got to warn you, though...they change your whole exhaust pitch. These chips, when installed, will scare children and small dogs nearby, especially when you hit the mid-range RPMs...and then they pack yet another new surprise right at redline.



I'm giving out the Stooge discount to you, too: free.

 

................. !!! So is the rev-limter raised a notch too?

 

No.

There are 3 OEM memory locations on the 2.7 chip that could be the rev limit.

I've left them alone until I can verify which is (or if all are) real.

The aftermarket TPS chip for 2.7 changes the rev limit in an entirely different place.

So I'd prefer to not go changing any one random or all 4 memory addresses until I can verify which is the actual rev limit (and it may be that Ferrari used all 4, I just don't know yet).

Dr. T348 and Plugzit are both sending me 348 Challenge chips, so I'll soon know for *certain* what to change to bump up the rev limit.


In the meantime, the Red Chips just bump up fuel and spark advance.