Updated Cost EV vs. ICE

Sorry if there is another thread that covers this topic.

Short story: Annually, presuming 12,000 miles driven, it would cost $1,030 to drive a gas car versus $1,554 for an EV.

Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/really-costs-more-charging-ev-232722262.html

Story highlights:

Study Reveals Different Findings
On Oct. 21, 2021, the Anderson Economic Group — a respected economic consulting firm with decades of auto industry experience — released the results of its own study, which was six months in the making. It was the first installation in a larger economic research series that is still being conducted.

Anderson parsed the costs of EV charging much more finely, going beyond just a state-by-state breakdown to examine rural/urban variations. The new methodology also separated vehicles by segment, use and cost.

Titled “Comparison: Real World Cost of Fueling EVs and ICE Vehicles,” the report’s startling results were summarized in its official synopsis: “Electric vehicles can be more expensive to fuel than their internal combustion engine counterparts.”

There’s More to It Than Just Gas and Electricity
DOE says that the average cost of electricity for an EV is $0.04 per mile, which means it costs $9 to fully charge a battery with a 200-mile range. By comparison, it costs between $0.07 and $0.10 per mile to fuel a gas car, according to AAA.

The Anderson study, however, challenged the presumption that EVs are cheaper to drive — or even cheaper to fuel. It found that powering EVs comes with four hidden costs: the purchase of a home charger, the greatly inflated price of commercial charging at public stations, “deadhead miles” spent driving to find far-flung charging stations and registration taxes that states slap on EV drivers to make up for the fact that they don’t pay gas taxes. The study also factored in the cost of time spent searching for reliable charging stations, which — even when located — can take a half-hour for a charge of 20% to 80%.

Traditional research — like the industry standard provided by DOE — doesn’t take any of that into account. It also presumes a heavily lopsided reliance on cheap, at-home charging instead of expensive commercial charging.

The More You Consider, the Worse EVs Look
Again, the new research is just the first installment in a larger series, but its results are undeniably head-turning. The study found that:

• Commercial charging rates are two to four times higher than residential rates.
  
  
• Level 1 chargers cost an average of $600 to install and can take 20 hours to fully charge an EV.
  
  
• Level 2 chargers are much faster but cost $1,600.
  
  
• “Full charge” is a misleading term because charging past 90% is slow, difficult and unadvised, which means you get far fewer miles than the advertised ranges would have you believe. Gas vehicles, on the other hand, are good for 300-400 miles per tank.
  
  
• Considering all of those factors, and presuming a greater reliance on commercial charging, it would cost $8.58 to fuel a mid-priced gas car that gets 33 mpg for 100 miles at $2.81 a gallon. Comparatively, a mid-priced EV — Tesla Model 3, Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt — would cost $12.95 per 100 miles.
  
  
• Annually, presuming 12,000 miles driven, it would cost $1,030 to drive a gas car versus $1,554 for an EV.
  

 

Nope..no..and no.

This guy is off his nut and is completely uneducated on the subject. He should go buy a horse and bring back the steam train.

He has failed to factor in a ton of expenses the ICE car has, that by nature the electric car completely eliminates.

 

I also think he findings are flawed. For one, anyone who lives in SoCal, including the OP, knows that gas is closer to $5 per gallon. Secondly, the supercharger cost does not match my personal experience. A charge up to 85 percent cost me around ten bucks. Also, it’s important to note that my stats come from a 1000 plus hp car whereas he is factoring something like a Camry. All that said, in my case, the cost of fuel is irrelevant and it did not drive my purchase, however, it is a nice unintended consequence.Superchargers are all over the place in Southern California so that’s also not a realistic problem. They are installing a level 3 charger in calabasas near my home soon! Anyone who has owned fcars for any period of time is already used to plugging in the car.

 

This brings to mind an interesting article I saw somewhere last week on a cell phone forum about optimum battery charge range. One theory over there is that the longevity of a battery is extended by operating in a State of Charge (SOC) between 20% and 80% as shown by the below voltage discharge curve:
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Of course, such a practice neglects using 40% of the total battery capacity. Some people can afford to operate on the middle 60%, but others need the full advertised range.

Just curious if there are similar curves for EV batteries and do they have similar tails on each end of the SOC?

 

Yeah, this study is pretty flawed.

My Tesla came with a Level 2 charger, and even if it didn’t, you can buy several good level 2 chargers for about $500-600 (juice box, chargepoint, etc.).

I would guess most (80%?) EV owners charge at home and don’t often need to use a supercharger. I’m almost 2 years of ownership, I’ve used a supercharger twice. The rest of the time, it gets charged at home. I have solar, which pays for the cost of electricity to charge my car, so basically costs me nothing.

I don’t need to do oil changes. Brakes do wear, but because we have regenerative braking, the wear is much less than on an ICE car.

 

I think this is just a theory, and hasn’t been proven. Others disagree with it. I don’t know the answer. I do know that it is generally considered not good to keep a battery at 100% for long periods of time.

Tesla recommends not charging to 100% for daily use. Part of that has to do with regenerative braking capacity- you won’t regenerate if the battery is close to full, so waste of energy if you are not using the full capacity every day. For long trips, no problem to charge to 100%. Other manufactures have a built in excess capacity, so when you charge to 100%, you are only using approx 90% of battery capacity. My sons Hyundai Ioniq is one such car- no issue charging to 100% daily. I think the Porsche Taycan also has excess capacity in their battery.

 

Yes yes and yes. This article from the outset was focused only on the fueling/charging cost. At no time did they suggest it represented all up costs.

 

Charge my Bolt for free at public level 2 chargers overnight. Walking distance to my home.
No oil changes, no fluids to change at all really. Brakes barely used. Single speed transmission. No crappy CVT.
NYC city did a cost breakdown on their fleet of cars. Chevy Bolt was the best hands down.
At 36k I've spent $200 for 2 tires.
YMMV

 

New battery tech on the way

 

Bolt owner here too! I pre-ordered a 2022 EV for my son way back when they were first 'revealed', and took delivery last June. It has been a hoot of a ride, and my wife seems to prefer it over her Cooper S most of time too. Who'd a thunk it?

From what I can determine there are a grand total of 3 of them in my city before the Chevy stop-sale was enacted. I don't really care what it 'costs' to operate. It's fun, and it keeps us away from the gas station and (hopefully) out of the dealer's service bay for a long time. One pedal driving is fantastic.

Guess what? I also like Mary Barra. I think she's a hell of a CEO.


p.s. no, I don't know when we'll get the new battery. As a 2022 EV, we're way down on the list of 'risk'.

 

I have 8 people I know that own Teslas, none have installed a charger. Some do plug in the 110 volt one, but they are always using public charging.

You’d be surprised how many times I’ve talked to them to find them waiting at the super charger for 45 minutes.

Perhaps it is regionally based, or my friends are just frugal (cheap).

No one I know has more than one Tesla, and no one I know only has a Tesla. I find that interesting, but it is a small sample set.

That all said, if you had to pay for charging at your house, I think it would be close, at least in the warmer parts of California where tier rates start kicking in.

 

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-tesla-supercharger-v3-station-update-fast-charging/

Must be the pre refresh model S. Current charge speed at level 3 Tesla supercharger is 1000 miles per hour or alternatively 75 miles in 5 minutes.

 

I personally would not be without a gas car this early on in the overall current development of the EV and its infrastructure.

That said. I know a number of people who have dumped the ICE and replaced them with EV as thier only car. They have zero regrets.

 

I’m planning to keep my ‘93 911 but possibly add an EV as a daily driver. More for the air-cooled fun factor than practicality — EVs and chargers are everywhere around here, and I have solar panels.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Bolt will be discontinued soon. The sooner GM goes bankrupt the sooner we can free up those assets to a more productive venture.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

We have two Tesla's and they are our only cars right now.
I've never waited inline for a supercharger.
I save 10 mins a week or so not having to go to a gas station.

 

Do you have two chargers at the house?

Do I know you? :>)

 

Nope, just one.

Hey Mark, I'm Jim, nice to meet you!
Now you do!

 

You do have oil changes. And coolant changes.

The only thing your car is lacking is an engine. It still has every single other component including a small version of a transmission.

Still has ball joints control arm bushing a cooling system and window regulators etc...

Teslas are not maintenance free. Just check your owners manual. I think servicing runs about 700 bucks averaged out per year when you follow the factory recommended maintenance book.

 

Do you have a link for this??

 

Here is Tesla’s current maintenance schedule for the 2022 Model S:

They have changed this somewhat over the years, and obviously you could argue that the coolant and gearbox fluid should be changed regularly as well. However as written its very little.
Something else to keep in mind, Teesla will come to you for most service, which is extremely convenient and something I wish other car dealers would offer.

 

I just remember it from having my model s and I know when the 3 came out they had a schedule for it because I remember people bitching about it on the forums.


There is still oil in the gearbox/diffs that the recommend to be changed. You can't spin gears af eleventy billion RPM and not have oil.

That is still a cooling system with heat being exchanged. It breaks down... And eventually becomes corrosive.

 

Actually, they did. “…challenged the presumption that EVs are cheaper to drive.” They tried to make it sound like it was fuel vs. charging, but they kept veering out of the lane.

The article does not match my experience at all…not even close. It is clearly biased and written with an agenda.

 

We did the math on our Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo and it costs $42/mo to charge at home (came with a charger we had installed on dedicated line). By comparison my wife’s last daily cost $220/mo for gas only for the same usage.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The electric cars can go to hell. Seriously, what kind of automotive enthusiast actually buys an EV? Pathetic