Upgrade from 550 to Superamerica: is it worth it?

I am considering upgrading from my 550 Maranello to a Superamerica. After having read through the many posts here on FerrariChat, I am somewhat bewildered and confused.

- First of all, a number of owners report about shabby build quality on the SA, compared to the 550. Is this really something I should be worried about?
- Secondly, what is the F1 transmission like in an SA? My 550 is a manual, which I quite like. Having been in a friend's 430 F1 I was impressed with the technology. But I also understand the 430 F1 transmission is an evolution on the unit in the SA, which may be not as refined. Any input on this?
- With the SA costing about three times as much over here in Europe as a very nice 550, I am kind of wondering if this huge premium is justified. I just adore the concept of being able to flip open the roof on a potent V12 Ferrari. That is what makes the SA so appealing to me.

If there are valid reasons why not to make the SA upgrade, feel free to chime in!

 

The tops are problematic!

 

i think 575 build quality are reliability is above the 550

 

I would say you suspect correctly on the F1 being more refined in an F430. If you are happy with the 3 pedal, and the 550, I suspect you might be disappointed the first time the flip top goes bad and you see the bill!!

Find a 355 and ride in that F1 car, and you will find a gap in technology from it to the 430. I highly recommend driving a 575 F1 before commiting, especially if you have no real problems with the 550 in your stable. Good Luck!!

 

The Superamerica F1 and 430 F1 were introduced at about the same time and the SA benefitted from four generations of F1 ECUs fitted to the 575M and the work done for the 430. F1 ECUs and hardware were continually upgraded throughout 575M production, and the latest two were both (normal and HGTC) fitted to the SA.

Like the 430, the SA was also available with a manual shifter, but they are relatively rare, as you can see from the attached list. You might get lucky and find one, although the F1 on my 575M works fine, and I only have a 2nd generation 575M F1 ECU on my car. The HGTC F1 ECU sped up shifting and was also smoother, like the 430 system.

HGTC was fairly common on SAs, and is worthwhile if you can find one so fitted.

Taz
Terry Phillips
View attachment 575M 575 SA Updates Rev 1.4.doc
View attachment 575M 575 SA VIN and Assembly Numbers Rev 1.43.doc

 

I can speak firsthand about all three versions of the Maranello. I owned a 2000 red/tan 550 for a couple of years. It was a blast to drive and the rawest of all of the versions. It had a few hiccups balancer, mounts, stickies, etc. But I think they have all been covered in other threads.

I upgraded to a 2003 titanium/black 575 F1. I liked the improvements and build quality. But I did not get the HGTC version so it felt a bit softer than the 550. More civilized, but less fun. My son who now has the 575 has added big Novitec wheels, super Brembos and Tubis to make it a better car.

Then I went for an SA. [Guess you will note I like Maranellos]. Clearly this is the best of the bunch. Better suspension than the 575, better and seemingly more responsive engine than the 575 and much quicker F1 than the 03. I absolutely love the top down driving with the car. With the Tubis fitted it has a off throttle burble and small backfire that sounds sweet. Hard acceleration is rocketing and shifting in Sport gives it a bit of a "slam" when pushed. This is one great car that I intend to hold on to. Nothing like top down driving at speed.

Now the top issues..........

There are two primary failings that I am aware of. First the top is heavy. And the struts are very strong to handle this weight. So strong that the concept of the strut is to pull the top up to vertical if there was no restraint in either direction. Accordingly these struts lose strength, an error message appears and you have to re-set to operate. Sometimes you have to help it in both directions. Unfortunately the Ferrari-fix says you have to buy the entire unit at a princely sum of $27000. Yikes! However search the threads and you will see that someone has found a supplier to make replacement struts. It's about a 5 hr job to replace, but certainly considerably less expensive than Ferrari's approach.

The other top issue is the revo-chromatic [?] top has shown a tendency to have the glass de-laminate. I believe this is caused by a variation in electrical current being transmitted to the top. [disclaimer: I am no electrical nor mechanical expert] Apparently Ferrari has issued a tech notice to replace and upgrade the ECU controlling the current to the glass top. If you find a car that has the top in good shape without any delamination spots then you just have to follow the tech notice. It's an easy plug-in so no big deal. If the car you find has a top that has already delaminated it is too late. The $27000 fix is the only route I know of.

I have owned 12 different Ferraris over the last 35 years. My two favorites are my 330 GTC and my SuperAmerica. Find a good one and you won't be disappointed.

Oh yea......almost forgot........they only built 559 SAs. Low production and convertible are two sound long term value supports.

 

Steve- Very interesting and informative. The suspension on the SA is identical to the later 575Ms, except for new front shock absorbers calibrated for the greater weight. The late 575Ms and, eventually, SAs benefitted from the steering sensor addition and shock ECUs added in the 2004/2005 model years. The new front shock absorbers may account for part of the improved feel.

I double checked the SA parts catalog to see exactly what was changed, just to make sure.

Good to see a happy SA owner. Would be nice to put the top down occasionally.

Taz
Terry phillips

 

Thanks Terry. I appreciate all of the knowledge you share through your research. Your note about changes on the 04/05s may be the difference I feel from the 03. And of course all of my comments about the drive experience is purely subjective and without any factual references......just the seat of the pants.

I put that top down whenever I can. A great GT and open air driving.

 

A great GT and open air driving, no doubt about it. I do think, though, Steve, that the SA has really suffered in styling. I hate the kink in the bootlid, I don't like the raised shield with chrome Cavallino, and I think the C pillars are really not very nice looking at all.

The SA has given up some of the purity of design for me. The 550 is still the most desirable to me but of course I respect your (and anyone else's) opinion and it's great there's a Maranello out there for most people. Because all versions are stupendous cars. And of course, that 540bhp in the SA is not to be sniffed at.

To the OP - I certainly don't think a 3 time premium is worth the open top, even if I take my own preference regarding the car out of the equation. I really believe the SA will suffer significant depreciation, like we have seen on the Barchetta. So if you really want an SA, and you have a 550 already that you can enjoy right now, why not wait a bit longer?


Onno

 

Onno......I actually agree. I never was really much taken by the SA styling. I think the 550 was the best design of the bunch. To compensate I chose a black SA. The color best blends the incongrous lines of the car. I don't like red SAs with their black roof just as I don't even like the black roof on my red Dino. I won't even get into the shields discussion as I don't think they belong on any street Ferrari.

But although exterior design is important I forget all of these shortcomings when I drive. The SA has the best engine of all the Maranellos. And top down at speed.....the sounds, scents and the feel are not offered by either the 550 or 575 that I had owned prior to. I am more than willing to give up the styling shortcomings for a better driving experience. My recent trip to the NC mountains I was able to experience the sweet smell of spring in the moutains, the warmth of the sun and the phenomenal growl of the big V-12. I was not thinking design but rather the glorious day of driving at speed under the sun.

Take the same line of thinking a couple of decades back....I think the Daytona is a much more attractive design than the 330 GTC. I could easily trade my GTC for a B/4. But I won't. The driving experience of the 330 is hands down more fun than the B/4 in my opinion. Sure the Daytona is a brute and at speed is a thrill. But it just does not have the tossability [sorry] of the GTC. I missed the train leaving the station with the 275 GTBs which I believe probably combine the best styling and drive characteristics. And their value reflects this. I love the GTC not for it's design - although competant - but for the pleasure it gives in the drive experience.

As far as valuations go follow the same line of thinking. The spyder version of the 330 is the GTS. They built 100 vs 600 of the GTC. The GTS is valued at $600k w/ the GTC at around $220......about 3x the value for the 1:6 ratio built. There were 559 SAs built. I don't know the exact figures but there were around 3600 550s built and maybe 3000 575s. That would put SAs to coupes at around 1:12. Two things come into play here. Rarity and convertibles. If one is a long term collector I think we can have the same comparison discussion 15 yrs from now.

Life is full of compromises. And for me so are the Ferraris I choose. None of the cars in my modest collection get it perfect in each category. But to me the driving experience is the key on how I base my decision on the cars that I select [and whether I can afford them too]. I thought the same as you regarding styling of the SA. It took a long time before I decided to acquire the car. I have never looked back. Of the 12 Ferraris I have owned the 330 and the SA are my two favorites.

best
Steve

 

i thought 575 were in the 1700-2200 production level

 

If it's an itch that you just have to scratch. Otherwise wait for that itch.

 

I dint read through all the responses but I think that is the best upgrade possible. get a drop top v12, better brakes and interior, its a no-brainer IMO. styling is -1 but everything else +2

 

I like the concept of the SA, although it is a bit out of reach for me. You guyes have provided a very nice write up on the car with direct ownership experience. Makes me just want the car more.

 

Thanks to all for the feedback and input. It definitely provides food for thought. I am a bit surprised to learn that the progosis for SA prices is that they will fall in the coming years. Over here in Europe, SAs have been steady in the 170k-190k Euro bracket. My idea was that prices would remain there in the years to come. Of course, I may be wrong...

Regards,
Rik

 

Rik,

A good friend of mine is looking at a pristine SA. He has come to me for advice on the model strengths and weaknesses as well as my experience with my own SA. I can give him pretty sound comments on the SA. But then he is asking the same question you pose. Is now the right time to buy from a value/price standpoint? That is a very tough thing to predict. SAs fell from $300k to just under $200k during the economic crises and recession. Over the past year I have seen US cars come back up over the $200k mark. I know an exotic dealer here that has sold 5 SAs over the past 6 months. All have been sold for over $220k.

While SAs appear to be firming at the same time prices of 550s and 575s seem to be still slowly declining. But that can be misconstrued too. With the production numbers of 550s and 575s there are probably quite a few cars with needs that tend to make the market appear to be still declining.

So is it the right time? Who knows? I am in the camp that if I want a car bad enough and can spend the discretionary capital I don't really try to focus on timing. These are cars and not good investments. But being a convertible and low production may help slow the depreciation.

 

Steve- Modern production cars, even limited edition versions of production cars, are not investments, as you know. Best idea is to find a good car, buy it and enjoy it. The market is too fickle to try and second guess. Otherwise a really nice 330 or 365 GTC/S is a better deal if he wants an investment. But it will not have great A/C and a few other things you would like to have in Florida that are on the SA.

Henry was correct, the number of 575Ms worldwide was less than 2000. 575M transmissions were shared with the SA and the last 575M F1 change was made at transmission number 1899, and some of those 1899 were SAs. The last 575M, as far as we can tell, was HGTC F1 141817, Assembly No. 59570, and the earliest SA for which I have data was HGTC F1 140837, Assembly No. 57644. Production overlapped.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Another reason to wait for an SA is the recent announcement that a roadster/spider version of the 599 is coming out soon.

IMO, once the SA's more modern, more powerful replacement is on the market, the 575M-based SA's should drop even more in price.

 

Ron- Depends on price. If they make a GTO convertible at $400K+, an SA at $200K might sound like a pretty good deal if you have to have a droptop V12.

The way the euro is going, though, new Ferrari prices may be a real bargain. This year the euro peaked at 1.4563 and bottomed recently at 1.1942. Or more simply, eu 300K was $437K earlier and was recently as low as $358K. Quite a difference. Could be 1:1 or lower later this year, where it belongs.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry,

Thanks for the correction on the production numbers. For some reason I could not find any quotes of the numbers. And as noted on today's new thread there may be a drop top 599 which certainly might have an affect on the SA market. Won't affect me as noted these are not investments......just cars..great cars.

Funny you mention the 330 GTC/S. You may have seen my "More Better GTC" thread in Vintage. I upgraded cooling and all A/C components to make the car more comfortable for our FL heat. It still is not as efficient as the SA system but significantly better than stock.

 

Steve- Affirmative. I drooled over your car for quite a bit, including a post or two. The GTC was always one of my favorites. For whatever reason, I was never a fan of the 275 GTB except the competition model. Too bad because FAF offered me a 275 GTB long nose in trade on my Dino 246 GT. I wanted, and got, a Daytona instead. Was also offered one of the GTO nosed street Lussos for the Daytona, but I wanted a Boxer. All bad choices.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry..I have to chuckle a bit. Needless to say from a financial standpoint your choice in Ferraris was not the best. My wife never liked the 275 and for some strange reason I acquiesced to her recommendations. I came close to pulling the trigger on a Stramen cut 275 2-cam, but wavered and missed. Oh well. I probably would never admit my lust for that car on this site lest I get shot by the vintage car guys.

Hey I too "upgraded" from my 1st 330 GTC to a BB512. I really wanted a Daytona at the time but at $30k it was out of my range. I still miss by BB512 though. Poor ventilation, heavy clutch and certainly not a good track car. But it was fun and beautiful.

Back on track.......I am glad the post about the 599 GTO drop top was leaked today. When I meet my friend about his pursuit of a red/tan SA at NaplesMotorSports I can give him more food for thought about timing. The more bases I cover the better when it comes to advice.
It has no affect on me. I still love Maranellos and my SA. Wish the 550 was a better track car. They have become such a bargain that I would be tempted to buy one to thrash. But they are just too heavy for steady track work.

 

Steve- Just depends on how much money you want to spend on a Maranello. They did pretty well at LeMans, admittedly at much lower weight. Substituting Moton shocks and Eibach springs would go quite a ways towards making a 550 handle fine. Engine does not need anything. Maybe shorter rear end, but that could be expensive.

My FHP 575M does fine with stiffer springs and rear anti-roll bar, but no intention of taking it to a track. Better a formula car for racing, but insufficient funds or storage space. Guess 20 years flying fighters burned that part out of me.

Incidentally, the Superamerica can be fitted with the FHP Hydraulic Steering ECU (actually a glorified relay) if you want a little sharper steering. I thought it came standard on later 575Ms and all Superamericas, but the SA parts catalog prived me wrong. Only on FHPs, as near as I can tell. Not even on HGTCs.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry, I was at Moroso a couple of years back looking at a Prodrive 550 racer. I asked the tech the main differences from stock. He said the engine, roof and glass were stock, but not much else. The most important changes were the engine having been lowered 4" and moved rearward 10". I never verified this, but considering the success of the car it seemed like the right mods to an otherwise front heavy understeering base model.

Thanks for the tip on the FHP Steering ECU. I will track one down. Do you think Ricambi can find this for me? Cool.....

 

JUST DO IT ALREADY AND POST PICS!