US 3.2 V8 runs OK until warm ... | FerrariChat

US 3.2 V8 runs OK until warm ...

Discussion in '308/328' started by David Lind, Dec 11, 2017.

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  1. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    I have a US model Ferrari w/ a 3.2 V8, and I have been driving it every day for 2 1/2 months. Lately, it has gradually run more rich than ideal. This morning, it ran OK for about 1 1/2 miles until it warmed up, and from then on it ran horribly. Same this afternoon when I just started it up. I will look for vacuum leaks and loose wires when I get home, but anyone who could help shortcut this diagnostic process would be doing me a great favor. Any ideas?
    Thanks: David Lind
     
  2. johnhunt

    johnhunt Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2013
    343
    Washington
    Full Name:
    John Hunt
    Sounds like a fuel injector issue to me.
    The warm up injector is keeping it going until it turns off.

    Try having the injectors cleaned.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,901
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    If your 328 runs well during that first couple of minutes after cold start-up, your symptom implies things like:

    1. the air injection system is not shutting off completely when it transitions to warm-running (or parts of the air injection system and/or exhaust sampling tubes have rotted and fallen off leaving a gaping hole;)). Letting extra air into the exhaust stream during warm-running with fool the O2 sensor to report things are too lean to the ECU -- so the Lambda system will (wrongly) try to add extra fuel. One easy way to check this is to unplug the single sensor wire from the O2 sensor during warm-running (which disables the Lambda system). If it runs well with the O2 sensor unplugged when warm = most likely air injection system is leaking into the exhaust or O2 sensor bad.

    2. If it still runs poorly with the O2 sensor unplugged when warm (but runs well after cold start-up), then I'd be more suspicious of the WUR being wacky - so would confirm/deny the cold and warm control pressures.

    Good Hunting!
     
  4. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    In conjunction with the above advice, this morning I got a 10mm open end wrench & unscrewed what I thought was the O2 sensor from my exhaust system. It now runs MUCH better when warmed up. I am uncertain whether what I removed was in reality the thermocoupler instead of the O2 sensor, but I will send pics later. Thanks for the help!
    PS: what is the functional difference between these 2 components?
     
  5. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    I'm now certain that what I unbolted/unscrewed was the thermocoupler, so now I'm not sure why the car runs better ... :confused:
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,901
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    The thermocouple measures the temperature of the exhaust gases just downstream of the catalytic element inside the catalytic converter -- its purpose is to detect if unburnt fuel is wrongly burning inside the catalytic converter. Removing it should have no effect on the engine operation other than letting exhaust gas out -- which is not a good thing.

    The O2 sensor measures the oxygen content of the exhaust gases and supplies a voltage signal to the injection ECU that varies from 0.1~0.5VDC (lean) to 0.5~0.9VDC (rich). The injection ECU then sends a signal to the frequency valve to either add fuel or reduce fuel as it tries to keep the O2 sensor signal at 0.5VDC. (I didn't suggest removing the O2 sensor -- just unplugging the single wire that comes from the O2 sensor.)
     
  7. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    Steve, thanks for that excellent and concise statement. Will work on it more tonight.
     
  8. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,550
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    but this sounds as if engine running problems exist no matter if after warming up or starting from cold ... ?


    what you can check easily:

    1) frequency valve buzzing when engine is running ?

    2.) auxilliary airvalve always open ? (pinch hose from valve to plenum after engine warm up)

    3.) cold start valve leaking ? (take off electrical plug from valve before starting engine from cold)
     
  9. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    Changed )2 sensor, &b car still runs like crap. I figured that with a 29 year old sensor & acquisition cost being a mere $62, I might as well change it anyway, but ... snake eyes. Will try to figure out how to test the warm up regulator.
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,901
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Why did you replace the O2 sensor without testing? You never gave a result for "If it runs well with the O2 sensor unplugged when warm..." -- did you not ever get the result for this condition?
     
  11. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    As I said above, it was 29 1/2 yrs old, car has 87,000 on it, and I got the O2 sensor for $62. If it wasn't that this time, I have now ruled that out as a trouble source for another 29 1/2 yrs (at least in theory).
    Thanks
     
  12. redqv

    redqv Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 26, 2015
    127
    Almost Oregon, California
    Full Name:
    Ron Stevens
    I disconnected the 02 sensor (at the suggestion of a very good F mechanic) and the car (‘85) runs great and starts when hot. I am also not running a catalytic converter.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     

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