US legal 288 GTO | FerrariChat

US legal 288 GTO

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by msgsobe, Jul 29, 2007.

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  1. msgsobe

    msgsobe Formula 3

    Aug 10, 2006
    1,315
    Miami Beach/Aspen
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    Mark Gold
    What work was done to the 288 GTO's brought to the US to make it epa/dot compliant? The ones I've seen here dont seem to suffer the ugly bumper syndrome. What about performance and weight changes?
     
  2. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    Nov 30, 2002
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    Bert Kanters
    #2 bert308, Aug 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,742
    #57221 of Harry R. Eberlin of Newport Beach/CA, later with Larry Carter.
    Marcel Massini
     
  4. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Unfortunately, I cannot recall all of the EPA/DOT-mandated safety and emissions requirements, but they include the bumpers, headlights & sidemarkers, side-impact bars in the doors, possibly seatbelts and, of course, emissions work. Additional weight was probably in the 150-200 lbs range, but that's just my own guesstimate based on my knowledge when I searched for one about 8 years ago. Performance is, accordingly, somewhat lower. More weight, more restrictive emissions results in slower 0-60 times. Not significantly slower, but slower.

    Many 288s were legalized by Dick Fritz' Amerispec in CT. They were the "specialist" of 288 importers.

    CW
     
  5. jplayer521

    jplayer521 Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2006
    617
    FL
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    Jason
    MARK you dont even want to know what I have been hearing about the 288GTO prices......
     
  6. RTB

    RTB Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2006
    1,071
    UK
    I'd like to know!!
     
  7. truman bond

    truman bond Formula Junior

    Sep 9, 2006
    321
    + 1,

    + I'd like the funds to be able to consider one now...

    I assume they're only to get more expensive?...
     
  8. msgsobe

    msgsobe Formula 3

    Aug 10, 2006
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    Mark Gold

    I know, it's the damn Euro!!!
     
  9. jplayer521

    jplayer521 Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2006
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    Jason
    I just spoke with Terry about them and he told me some crazy info. Basically he told me last year you could get them all day for 400 - 500k and then the $ dropped and everyone overseas picked these up. Now not only can terry not find one anywhere but he told me at 750 - 800K he doesnt even know if he could find one. In all honesty the only car that has not taken a HUGE climb is the f40. I bet there will be a huge spike in the f40 market soon.
     
  10. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
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    Isaac not Issac
    availability and production # make a huge difference ... while yes, the F40's with low miles and no stories continues to taper off, there are still far more then that of the 288, which is rightfully climbing... but perhaps too quickly ATM.
     
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    May 23, 2006
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    So youre saying F40s are good value right now then?

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    To add to this, I should comment that a handful of cars were subsequently brought up to California emissions approval and issued with an all-important BAR sticker certifying same. Furthermore, its important to note that although perhaps 25 cars in the USA have EPA/DOT paperwork in hand, if you inspect them visually, any and all traces of certification equipment have mysteriously vanished, leaving nothing but a European spec car before your eyes (other than perhaps some hastily applied sidemarker lights) - I should know, Ive inspected quite a few of them...

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  13. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
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    Steve Hill
    Joe,

    Right you are. I own one of those Honest-to-God California BAR Label 288 GTOs. Almost as rare as Hen's teeth. My car was a California car from new and it was purchased from the original owner. F40s, even USA ones, are down right commonplace in comparison. The money I've been recently offered on the car is staggering compared to just six months ago.

    There is a very long list of items required to bring a 288 GTO into EPA and DOT compliance, even more for CA compliance (the BAR label). The good news is, for those of you outside of California, EPA is on longer required on the car. However, if you live in California, while their may be a EPA exemption, there isn't a California exemption. And, to get the BAR label, if you have to pass the EPA test first, including the dreaded cold bag test. I remember going through all of this years ago. Painful and very expensive.

    Anyone wondering why I had to go through the process of getting a California BAR label and redoing the EPA tests when my car already had DOT & EPA papers and was CA registered from new? It's a long story, but long story short is when the car was first imported, from new, back in 1985, CA didn't issue a BAR sticker. The owner had it all legalized, passed CA smog, and it was registered in CA. Not a problem until I purchased it from the original owner and went to transfer the title and register it. That was in 1993 (I think) and by then you needed to have a CA BAR label on the car to get it smog tested. So, $100K. and many months later, I had the new CA BAR label. Even though I had EPA certification on the car from 1985, with documents to prove it, California made me go through it all again as part of getting the BAR label. And, from experience, it is the cold bag test that is the difficult one. You don't want to go there. The reason it costs $100K is figure about $50K for the modifications, then another $50K to rebuild the motor after the tests. All those tests on the dyno eventually wears the motor out. That's why some GTOs drive like crap. The motors are tired just from all the dyno work and the motors were not rebuilt. So, if you live in CA and want a GTO, just wait for one with a BAR label. It will save a lot of money, time and heartache.

    Oh, there was one signficant difference from 1993 and 1985, technology had changed a lot. When the car was first EPA'd, it used two smog pumps, and all sorts of crap. When the much better computers available, we were able to get it to pass all the tests without a single smog pump! It's all about fuel control and with the new technology you can control it a whole lot better. You gotta love computers.

    And, like Joe suggested, you would be hard pressed to find a single lick of stuff on my car. I think the only thing I have left on the car is something that says unleaded fuel only on the dash. They look, and run, much better that way.

    Steve
     
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  14. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Steve,

    Actually, your car is as rare as a Ferrari owner's wife who doesnt want very expensive jewellry in compensation :) OK, Ill settle for "as rare as hen's teeth...."

    Seriously, I understand there are just 5 or 6 GTOs with the California BAR sticker. I doubt if any of them has the equipment in place. All I can say is you gotta love the State of California!

    BTW I know of one GTO that has had its engine sent back to Italy as we speak to be rebuilt under the Ferrari Classiche program. They are promising all the horsepower...

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  15. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 22, 2004
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    Furman
    An adjustment to prices for US cars may occur 25 years after the release (2009?) when the car becomes easier to import in the US. I believe it becomes exempt from a lot of DOT regulations.

    It's already starting to happen as "no-stories", low mileage versions become rare. More of a strong climb than a spike.

    -F
     
  16. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
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    Steve Hill
    DOT on the GTO is easy, courtesy of USA 308 parts.

    It's the emissions that is hard. There is no waiver on that in California, and possibly other states that follow Californai's rules, for a GTO no matter how many years after it was built. Although, as mentione earlier, with all the advancement in technology, if you are willing to ditch the GTO's fuel control system for a modern one, it will get easier, but it will still take time and effort which translates into money.

    This was some time ago, but when I was going through the California BAR exercise on my GTO, the DMV investigator that was helpful on some issues looked up some information on the GTOs in the DMV database and she told me there were three GTOs that had valid CA BAR labels, mine would be the fourth. I know of at least one other one that was done after mine and was tested at the same lab. Unfortunately, that owner didn't rebuild his motor after the tests and it's a bit weak (I've driven it). She acknowledged that they know some of the GTOs, like Boxers and Countachs before it, were "clean-piped". Meaning the guys modifying the cars would do one car and use that car's test results to get the the other GTOs passed. She admitted this was not high on their enforcement list. Also, she told me that the "big label" BAR cars don't have an issue. It's if you find one with a "small label" (as in size of the sticker) that could be.

    You can see why owning a USA F40 if you live in CA is a much easier proposition.

    Steve
     
  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    May 23, 2006
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    Well-stated Steve as always.

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     

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