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Used F12 TDF prices?

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by MuratC, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. MuratC

    MuratC Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2014
    532
    Istanbul, Turkey
    what are the reasonable asking prices for tdf?
     
  2. RumorDude

    RumorDude Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2003
    504
    Woodinville, WA
    in the US, i hear people talking in the 1.2-1.5m range. i believe few, if any have changed hands. (because of the 2 year ROFR they put in place to most (all?) buyers -- FNA was responsible for the allocations of the cars here)

    in europe, i have seen many advertised in the 900 EUR to 1.2m EUR range.

    i don't know what prices they have actually sold at, if at all.
     
  3. carlom001

    carlom001 Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2010
    289
    A major swiss dealer confirmed when speaking to him a few months back that several have changed hands in the 900 EUR to 1.2m EUR range - all brokered through Ferrari dealers so that the original TDF owner remained in Ferrari's good graces
     
  4. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    I am aware of one that sold in the UK for £890k, with the seller receiving just over £800k. I believe the transaction was documented in a manner circumventing the ROFR through a sale and leaseback.
     
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  5. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3
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    Apr 2, 2012
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    £1mio for a nice RHD, assuming 70 in the U.K. and 60min hands of proper clients its a thin market.
     
  6. patekswiss

    patekswiss Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2014
    1,174
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Lorenzo

    Ooh, Ferrari needs better lawyers!
     
  7. bj.rt

    bj.rt Rookie

    Mar 16, 2018
    9
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Hi Guys!

    Wanted to check with you on the current market for the TdF.
    I might be interested in buying one, but I think the displayed prices are too high.

    Ferrari NA lists 14 cars with approved for sale. Cheapest one at 1.275m$. Not much movement, most of the cars sit on display since quite a while.
    In Europe, Ferrari lists 2 cars with approved for sale. Cheapest at 849k€. Most of the cars in Europe are with non-Ferrari Dealers.
    18 cars are online, e.g. at mobile.de. Cheapest one at 749k€. Most of them also do not move.

    From my point of view, there is high competition for the TdF out there.
    812 - clear.
    812 "GTO" / LE version.
    Potential 812 Spyder.
    SF90 might also attract many potential buyers, especially because you can also buy directly from F and build relationship.
    599 GTO as the previous LE car. 16 units on market in Germany. Cheapest at 435k€.

    Whats your opinion on the market? Especially for Europe / and in particular Germany, if any knowledge available?

    Appreciate your feedback and comments!

    Have a nice Sunday
     
  8. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    26,090
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    It seems you know the answers. If cars are not moving it's because they are too expensive and owners dont need to sell.

    Buy one you can comfortable afford, and maybe knowing it will lose value bc of the reasons you mentioned.
     
  9. bj.rt

    bj.rt Rookie

    Mar 16, 2018
    9
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Maybe I gave the answer already, but maybe my interpretation is wrong. That is why I was asking for feedback from you guys & highly appreciate your comments... :)
     
  10. lamborarri

    lamborarri Formula Junior
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    Nov 15, 2015
    348
    I got mine a few months ago, before that, I was shopping for the right one for 2 years. All I know is the US market. I can share some of my experience here.

    Price:
    For industrial specs (for example, red/black, black/black, grey/black, etc. simple color choices with all the carbon options), and try-hard specs (for example, got lots of different color going on but they dont flow together, and bad TM cars, etc.), these are going for $850k - 950k, with or without some miles. These are the lower end of the TDF market.
    The ones that tastefully spec'ed (includes the ones the owners think), still going for $1m+.

    Buying:
    From my shopping experience, most of the owners who still originally own the TDF's are rich enough not to give a damn. This is not a 100% market driven cars like Speciale, Pista, etc. Sellers expect to sit for months if not years. These are consignment cars anyway so the dealers don't mind having them display at the dealerships sitting pretty.
    If any of the TDF's pricing been significantly changing to lower prices, that means the owner in need for money or want to move it, these are the cars that you can negotiate aggressively. If you are looking for a deal, this is what you gonna look for.

    Competition:
    There's no competition in the market from the driving standpoint. The TDF has nothing to do with the F12 and 812's driving dynamics. Of course, there are competitions in the price bracket.

    Enjoy your TDF shopping.
     
  11. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
    6,658
    Paris , France
    Full Name:
    Olivier
    Congrats, mays I ask you the color, I'd like to ad you to the little Fchat tdf owner register I made (If you're OK)
     
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  12. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
    2,117
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    Cavallo
    #12 Eilig, Jul 15, 2019 at 5:15 AM
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019 at 5:21 AM
    I'll chime in. Tdf transactions largely broken into 3 categories: (1) off market, (2) dealer, (3) auction. Cars spec's largely broken into 3 categories: (1) tasteful, (2) oddball (3) vanilla.

    Tasteful Tdfs rarely hit market, most sell privately off market. I'm aware of 4 tasteful Tdfs sold privately in last 12 mo's in range of $1.1 to $1.2. Oddball (aka "try hard") Tdfs and vanilla (aka "industrial") Tdfs harder to move, they make it to market. Dealers price at $1.0 to $1.2 with expectation of actual transaction upper 900s to $1.1. These can languish. As lamborarri pointed out, comes down to how patient seller is. Most don't need the $$ so are fine waiting. Dealers like car on floor to draw traffic. Maybe seller compromises price and/or dealer compromises commission, yielding upper 900s to $1.1 transaction. Impatient sellers go to auction, sell 800ish-900ish, but w/premium, buyer still in upper 900s to $1.05.

    Can't be ignored - More than perhaps any other model, lots of oddball Tdf specs out there, i.e. beautiful to beholden eye of original owner, but fall flat on buyers in secondary market. This only helps tasteful cars, and even vanilla cars to a degree.

    With direction of 2020+ models (i.e. GPF, HELE, other e-nannies, possible integrated speed regulatory software, unexciting "me-too" Manzoni designs, possible elimination of NA V12, high-priced Iconas, etc) it's arguable Tdf at $1.0 is relative "bargain." I know 5 owners (self inclusive) who find visual, audible and drive dyamics of Tdf so exciting that we'll "NEVER" sell. In which case, market value is meaningless compared to intrinsic value. What JWW et al say is true: 812 is fantastic, but Tdf is other-level, other-worldly good. Thus, no comparison, no "competition." Tdf stands alone.

    Buyers who can't establish intrinsic value w/o ownership thus rely on market value as measuring stick. In theory, we could be ~18 cars away from all Tdfs finding rightful owners who go on to establish intrinsic value greater than market value. Then what? As Harris Monkey says, "Catch my drift?" They ain't making anymore.
     
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  13. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    Aug 22, 2002
    9,756
    agree with all above - another perspective - at one time dealers were paying 1M+ for tdfs, now that number is 750 to 900k in the usa, depending on spec/miles.
     
  14. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
    355
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Scott
    ^^^
    This !!!
     
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  15. Dicecal

    Dicecal Formula Junior
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    Nov 15, 2015
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    Rob
  16. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
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    Cavallo
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  17. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Apr 6, 2004
    13,130
    ON
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    There for a long time was only one tdF for sale here started at 1.3mil in USD. #2 oddball light blue with a lower body stripe. Reduced to 1.09mil in CDN.
    Only the second car to appear is also a #2 oddball in grey over blue int offered at 1.5mil CDN.
     
  18. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Since you are in Germany, I can add another data point that could be of relevance for your geography, in addition to the excellent contributions above. I bought mine early this year, and was looking a relatively standard spec as a driver. Found a French car, 1700km, was offered at €850k and traded at €715k. I think, as others have pointed out above, many cars are in strong hands with no pressure to sell.

    One point to consider is the relative pricing between the 599GTO and the tdf. A similarly standard spec GTO I acquired around the same time with 3000km was approximately 55% of the tdf. While the tdf's stellar reputation is entirely deserved in my opinion, the GTO comparison does raise an interesting debate about the relative pricing of the two V12 LEs in the long run, particularly as build numbers favour the GTO.
     
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  19. lamborarri

    lamborarri Formula Junior
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    Nov 15, 2015
    348
    Thank you! Mine is Argento Nurburgring.
     
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  20. tfazio

    tfazio Formula 3
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    Apr 20, 2004
    1,623
    Michigan
    What was the mileage on the ex-Penske F12tdf?
     
  21. LandandcarsAZ

    LandandcarsAZ Karting

    Jun 14, 2018
    149
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Robert
    4xx if I remember correctly.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  22. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
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    Cavallo
  23. Thecadster

    Thecadster Formula Junior
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    Apr 27, 2017
    508
    “Individualized” lol.... As always, one man’s individualized is another man’s blasphemy. In the end though, there is a butt for every chair.
     
  24. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    3,814
    Both of those look great.
     
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