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V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots

Discussion in '308/328' started by dave80gtsi, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Spent a bit more time on MAP sensors after weather.com told me the correct baro reading for my area was 101.5 not the 99.5 may sensors displayed....101 ish now. On the other end the sensors on the multiMAP have a min output of 20kPa while the baro goes down to 10 which let me confirm my brake bleeder pump was pulling under 20 and I could use the lower flatline as a second cal point. That all seems close enough now and much better than it all was.
     
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  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    To me the fact that a ferrari has a "Slow Down" dash light is about the funniest thing I can think of

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    The ECU now has control of that light...I've not completely decided how the ECU will use that power but it has it. its a frikin bright light so I my do something light a dim (maybe with slow blink) is traction control active and bright flashing is low oil pressure and such....not sure

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    I was also looking a bit at steering angle options and thinking maybe something like this from pegasus would fit up under the dash , mostly right now I want to know where the wire so I can button up the dash at some point

    Steering angle sensor

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  4. Brian A

    Brian A Formula 3

    Dec 21, 2012
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    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    Hook it up to a radar detector.
     
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  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I could hook it to a an accelerometer and have in indicted lateral G-force by changing the brightness and/or blink rate, that might be useful....maybe add a tire selector switch for street vs track compound and have it correct for road, tire temps, rain? Something that says "see, I told you I can make the ecu do whatever I please" :)

    From now though I'm happy to have 1 less wire hanging out the dash :p
     
  6. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Shift light....
     
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  8. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    then what do I do with the seatbelt light?
     
  9. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Ejector seat warning!
     
  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Went to hook up a couple more wires tonight....hmmm....no pins left, at least not the pins I was looking for.

    The plan now is I should be able to drive any relay with a HighSide pin, they are 12V, 2A I think, just need to rewire the relays. That will free up to 3...these are just on/off, the LowSide outputs are pwm so more valuable and what I need for the water temp gauge I was trying to connect.

    I think the 2 internal throttle controllers are also available....4 pins 0/12+ and all 4 can be driven separately I think. I can't use them because they are 5A and my throttle pulls 15 so I needed an external controller and driving it ate 2 or my LS pin, but I think I can use these for a lot of things..... probably....
     
  11. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I'll add this thought, nobody plans to fail, they simply fail to plan.....yeah.....no idea where I planned to connect all those wires....
     
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  13. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Yeah... Have I mentioned I hate wiring?... Do not envy you at all...

    The last wire job, I thought wouldn't it be neat to integrate the standalone ECU into the factory harness... Utilizing the fuel pump relays, key on etc... And repurpose the CIS frequency valve/over voltage relay setup in the passenger side trunk... Oh and rewire the factory engine harness and connectors... Half way thru the job I wanted to go back in time and kick my own ass! Took me a month and I even made a new wiring diagram book for the car.
    328 has a modular harness, that's why I went hmmmmm.... I wonder... Should've smacked myself right there!
     
  14. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    May 10, 2006
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    Question, do you ground all your COPs to one spot on the engine or?
     
  15. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Or.

    I use a "star" or distributed ground similar to modern OEMs. I have 5 or 6 ground attachments to the chassis in and around the engine bay/trunk , all wired together so they are as close to a common potential as I could reasonably achieve. Nothing is grounded to the engine really....other than the starter and the plugs. All the sensors I use are 2 or 3 wires, isolated from the engine. I figure wire s_cks so best to just do it right ONCE.

    I have a LOT of wires at this point
    32 AN in - 20 AN in +12 CAN AN in, 2 available
    22 LS (12 for injectors, 10 other), 0 available
    5 Temp In (but 2 I'm just using as 5V pullup for my external throttle driver father than put resistors in the wire harness), 1 available
    6 coil (there are 6 after a board rewire to activate 2 of them left from older board rev, but FW only supports 10 total currently....begging for them to fix that)
    6 digital in, 2 available ( 2 are unconnected but slated for brake and clutch pedal...needed if I want to try launch control)
    1 VR in pair, 3 available
    1HS, 2 available

    So I have o LS, 1 HS and the DBW output left. The DBW I messed with tonight and couldn't quite get them doing what I want but I have a couple more ideas to try....hoping to get 2 usable outputs there. If I believe the 2 additional coils in FW are never coming I could take the 4 unused coil outs bur they are very low power HS on/off outputs so not very useful.

    Tonight I connected the water temp gauge to the ECU and almost the low oil pressure light....but I ran out of heat shrink tubing to cover the splice (I had to cut the wire back as the OEM insulation was swelled and no longer fits in the ECU connector). I added some code to make the "slow down" light basically a check engine light that currently comes on with low oil pres, low fuel pre, high water temp....I'll add misfire and such later.

    1 of the unused HS outs is for exhaust valves. I have 4 mufflers, 2 quiet (ish) and 2 loud. There are valves on the loud muffler and I have a solenoid valve that will open /close them. The quieter muffler should be good for 250-300hp which will handle all normal driving, then above that the gates of H_ll will open. Right now they are safety wired open, but I need to hook them up properly.
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  16. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I keep finding I don't have the bits I need to finish stuff.

    -oil pressure warning light is waiting on heat shrink
    -front wheel speed sensors waiting on 1/8" wire cover, heat shrink and I just discovered 1k resistors (sensor needs an external resistor and I now remember using my last when I switched the crank/cam position from VR to hall, the same hall I'm using for wheels so I used my resistors....I'll have 100 and the other bits tomorrow says amazon
    -brake and clutch switches....I need a clutch switch. I think I found something that will work, but a week to come.

    Hopefully this weekend most of the little annoying wiring will be done. I've made some adjustments to the ECU code and the water temp gauge now driven by the ecu, the oil light will be once I can heat shrink it and plug it in, the "slow down" light is check engine and light for low oil pres, low fuel pres, high water temp....I'll add more later like misfire, TBs out of sync and such.

    I've decided its good the DBW outputs didn't work the way I wanted...that means I still have them for when I build variable rpm tuned air box, kind of like the porsche varioram that changes tuning with rpm. I think the DBW output will be perfect for that.
     
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  17. Cirorsi

    Cirorsi Formula Junior
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    Nov 10, 2016
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    Way cool Mark, that is really neat to customize the annunciator lights. You’ve given me an idea for the slow down light.
    What are you doing for gauges? VDO or are you going with modifying the Veglia?

    West Valley Instruments was able to change some internals on the original Veglia guages to talk to the 355 sensors.

    watching your build is really neat.
     
  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Stock Veglia. I programmed the ECU to speak Veglia so I use modern sensors to feed good data to the ECU and them the ecu displays those numbers on the stock gauges.
     
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  19. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2016
    365
    This is the most incredible work I have ever seen, metal work, machining, etc, with that being said, why not just drop in a V12 from a 550 , 575 , 599 . or Enzo ?? Wouldnt that work much better than to deal with getting the Testa Rossa heads to comply on this if I remember a V 12 from a 400 I ? I was just curious .

    Thank you,
     
  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Thanks and that is a question that came up way back. It started with 400 engines are pretty cheap which is what let me start the project. All the major parts are also period correct which I kind of like...Ferrari could have built this is they chose to.

    But to your question as complication built I did take a look at maybe a 456 engine that I could maybe afford.....too long. I shortened the damper as much as I could, the shortened the 308 bellhousing another inch and the inside edge of the much wider than stock wheels that are smashed under stock fenders clear about about 1/2" per side. The newer engines are bigger bore which makes them longer and a no go. A TR engine/trans would have been the easier path but cost the trunk.
     
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  21. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #368 mk e, Nov 20, 2020 at 6:49 PM
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020 at 6:54 PM
    Tried to wire up the brake pedal switch....weird, no power ....oh...looks like I never completely finished the fuse box upgrade to the point of there being fuses..one more thing. They will be here Sunday.
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  22. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2016
    365

    Thank you Sir
     
  23. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
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    That fuse block spaghetti nightmare photo should carry a warning. I was lying here, Saturday morning, coffee in bed, reading the latest updates and trying to keep everything you are doing straight in my (limited) head, but that picture was too much for me. I’m going to my happy place :)
     
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  24. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    You are not wrong.....the funny thing is that is where the whole stupid project stared and why the car rolled into the shop in the first place...yup, the whole V12 epic began with with wiring. I'm not sure if birdman had yet release his plug&play fuse box upgrade but I was having constant power issues as well as ECU problems on the supercharged setup. The fuses were corroding as many have an issue with and the ECU I got a great deal on because they had been recalled over a crank sensor option I didn't need not working right...1/2 price knowing for sure that would never work. It turned out that as the ECU got warm in the trunk the working crank trigger didn't work right either and timing would jump advanced enough so it would detonate at idle.

    I bought a motec M800 and decided to mount it in the the cabin....that is the M800 bracket I made that the fuses are bolted too. it was going to slip up under the dash and I decided to just replace the fuse box with modern stuff along with adding extras for the ECU....then the stock relay panel was right there and it would be a super net install.

    I don't recall exactly when it all went off the rails......but the project is ending where it began with me cleaning up the fuse box. Honestly it looks like its mostly done and ready for fuses. I'm also remembering the fuse numbers match original and I did leave so tape with numbers so I know how I numbered it....when the fuses come tomorrow I should be able to just plug them in....and see what systems don't work after sitting all these years.
     
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  25. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    This post reminded me I'm on my 5th ECU. Haltech E6k, Haltech E11v1, Motec M800, Motec M150, Enginelab EL129 (AEM infinity7), 6 if I count the o5e open source project that was about concurrent with the M150 time
     
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  26. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    It is slow going......

    Today I ran the steering angle, brake and clutch wires through the dash then got power to the brake switch so I could figure out which wire was which and connected the ECU lead. Also jumped of the hot for the clutch switch when it arrives. Brake and clutch are wired to the ECU, held on steering until I have a sensor. Heat shrink and wire wrap came this morning and resistors this evening so I was able to get the front wheel sensors installed. I wired the signal to the ECU but still need to do the power and ground in the trunk but the sensors worked out nice....they are universal, so 5, 12, 15, 24V which meads external power resistor and I prefer to keep that with the sensor than at the ECU end so should I change sensors I'm not rewiring the car.

    I think this means I can put the cabin back together tomorrow....that would be nice after so many years.

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  27. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    Kudos mate .this is 10X better than anything Ferrari have produced recently.
     
  28. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Semi-related as it involves wires. When I switched to the F430 calipers and rotors I also eliminated the power brakes expecting ITBs and big cams would make them worthless anyway. as I was pulling the wheel speed sensor wire I noticed the brake fluid level wire just laying there looking lonely which got me wondering if there is a fluid level sensor that will work with the compact master cylinders I have? A quick google search didn't find anything so the question goes to the community, anyone ever seen a level sensor for a setup like this?

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